I'm leaving high end audio...

Well written piece. I now own a very modest system which is actually used for tv purposes about half the time. I really enjoy listening to classical music on Qobuz. I was always a "music first" person given my limited income and desire for above average, emotionally involving sound.. I think that's my main takeaway from your post.

I lived in the "suburbs" for many years and I believe that's where your thesis misses the point. Entry to mid tier priced Luxman, Pass Labs and Joseph Audio was my final hang out and it allowed me to leave the city and see the stars. I agree with you that "marketed" high end has gone totally amiss (too expensive, too many egos) and discourages music lovers of modest means from entering that world.

Having said that, there are many brands that cater well to suburbian folks that can be had (especially used) at a marginal cost (compared to the uber priced gear) and represent a real value from a music listening perspective. Glad you are off the urban freeways and heading towards calmer, dark sky country roads. Enjoy the trip. Best.
 
Last edited:
ggdudeabides said:
Well written piece. I now own a very modest system which is actually used for tv purposes about half the time. I really enjoy listening to classical music on Qobuz. I was always a "music first" person given my limited income and desire for above average, emotionally involving sound.. I think that's my main takeaway from your post.

I lived in the "suburbs" for many years and I believe that's where your thesis misses the point. Entry to mid tier priced Luxman, Pass Labs and Joseph Audio was my final hang out and it allowed me to leave the city and see the stars. I agree with you that "marketed" high end has gone totally amiss (too expensive, too many egos) and discourages music lovers of modest means from entering that world.

Having said that, there are many brands that cater well to suburbian folks that can be had (especially used) at a marginal cost (compared to the uber priced gear) and represent a real value from a music listening perspective. Glad you are off the urban freeways and heading towards calmer, dark sky country roads. Enjoy the trip. Best.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 
u-sound said:
you thought they would let you go after you have reviewed 30 switches in less than 15 minutes?
Click to expand...
Almost afraid to ask but who's you? Who's they? Very bizarre, unintelligible post. If you have something to say, be nice and say it in an understandable, coherent manner.
 
Last edited:
To Michael. Someone posted your essay on WBF and have no idea if what I read on WBF is true or not. And no intent to cause major heartburn for the OP or make any accusations. That site claims your essay on hi end is AI generated. I haven't got a clue. To be fair and objective, there appears to be "bad blood" between you and some WBF members. And WBF holds onto grudges quite well. I used to post there (don't anymore) and have personal knowledge / experience with this type of negative activity. Not to mention massive egos and member resentments. FWIW, the essay appears to be free of any grammar and / or spelling errors. Any comment?
 
Last edited:
ggdudeabides said:
Have no idea what I read on WBF is true or not. And not to cause major heartburn for the OP or make any accusations. That site claims your essay on hi end is AI generated. To be fair and objective, there appears to be "bad blood" between you and some WBF members. And WBF holds onto grudges quite well. I used to post there (don't anymore) and have personal experience with this activity FWIW, the essay appears to be free of any grammar and / or spelling errors. Any comment?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm.....I do wonder if this is the same AI that was in the news recently for saying Jesus was a woman and George Washington was African American?

WBF is mad because the world has figured out who they really are.

It's disappointing their owners won't answer questions we've all been asking for some time now about if/how much they are paid by their "sponsors" to delete / control the posts and why they won't simply be transparent on any free gear they may receive / discounts / if they get paid for their posts to promote. Yet they are quick to falsely claim others are.

I have nothing to hide and gladly admit I use AI to take my 2 page long article I spent 4 days to write and then help me with the layout. I'd be silly not to.

All the points are mine. All the emotions are mine. All the examples are mine. The layout was helped by AI. I then usually spend about 2 hours after that and fix and re-write anything it changed from my original thoughts.

Don't worry - no heartburn, hard feelings, nor animosity here. I have no ill-will towards WBF.

Thank you for letting me explain.
 
Last edited:
No intention to start an AS / WBF war. Shocked by the intense hostilities but I tend to be trusting and non combative by nature. My previous post was completely honest and made in good faith. Thank you sir for your detailed explanation. What is HQ?
 
Last edited:
ggdudeabides said:
No intention to start an AS / WBF war. Shocked by the intense hostilities but I tend to be trusting and non combative by nature. My previous post completely honest and made in good faith. Thank you sir for your detailed explanation. What is HQ?
Click to expand...

No worries! In no way did I take your post as anything other than on honest question. I totally respect the question and appreciate the opportunity to give an honest answer.

To be honest, their post just TOTALLY PROVED the points in my article. :)
 
I started the WBF post as I find the concept of $$ destroying the culture of forum participation interesting. They took down my thread after my last post. They used the OP as the reason to kill it. It may be the simple fact the Greek is a lighting rod with a long history that has rubbed some the wrong way. But hey, I am my own set of issues. I have people that like me, and people the despise me. If your in it long enough, you get a reputation. But the topic is interesting.

I am going to start a new post on WBF and use my last thread, and a paragraph from the book, Precision Sound by Todd Binnix. Todd is the moderator that took my post down. The paragraph of interest to me is in the preface. He says.
Page xi
"Like most audiophile, while exploring the musical possibilities with a two-channel stereo system, I owned several different versions of each component-speakers, amplifiers, pre-amplifiers, CD players, DACs, and more. Each time I mde a change, I hoped to achieve a better, more engaging music experience. Unfortunately, many of these decisions were based on some magazine or online review filled with flowery descriptions: improved soundstage width, enhanced depth, warm but detailed vocals, ruthlessly revealing, and son on. lI thought if I could fid the right combination of components, the music would pour out and magic would happen - it never did."

I believe what I wrote on WBF and a lot of what the Greek is saying, and in a round about way, but not, that Todd is saying, is that $$$$ have ruined the audiophile culture. Big name brands with big price tags have coopted and corrupted the process of getting great sound. They have warped perceptions and made it seem that invested $$$$ equal a high end, satisfying stereo. I disagree. I think good power and a good set of speakers, well setup in room with modest electronics can make a fantastic playback experience.

To be fair. My personal experience is that many people engaged in the hobby are placing a stereo in a common living space in the home. That right there ends the ability to get great sound. WAF and even the owners personal decor taste place the speakers in a space where they do not couple properly with the room. No amount of $$$ is going to fix it. But the industry has skillfully convinced people that $$ will make the difference. Now you have a hobbled system in a living room that is comprised of $400K to $750K in gear, that still can't get there. A $50K system set up properly in a dedicated space is going to knock the socks off all that invested money.

That is what I got from the OP attached article and what I find of interest. I miss the days of people sharing. I miss learning. I am tired of the angst and vinegar post that have roots in ego tied up in large financial investments of equipment.
 
Kingrex said:
I started the WBF post as I find the concept of $$ destroying the culture of forum participation interesting. They took down my thread after my last post. They used the OP as the reason to kill it. It may be the simple fact the Greek is a lighting rod with a long history that has rubbed some the wrong way. But hey, I am my own set of issues. I have people that like me, and people the despise me. If your in it long enough, you get a reputation. But the topic is interesting.

I am going to start a new post on WBF and use my last thread, and a paragraph from the book, Precision Sound by Todd Binnix. Todd is the moderator that took my post down. The paragraph of interest to me is in the preface. He says.
Page xi
"Like most audiophile, while exploring the musical possibilities with a two-channel stereo system, I owned several different versions of each component-speakers, amplifiers, pre-amplifiers, CD players, DACs, and more. Each time I mde a change, I hoped to achieve a better, more engaging music experience. Unfortunately, many of these decisions were based on some magazine or online review filled with flowery descriptions: improved soundstage width, enhanced depth, warm but detailed vocals, ruthlessly revealing, and son on. lI thought if I could fid the right combination of components, the music would pour out and magic would happen - it never did."

I believe what I wrote on WBF and a lot of what the Greek is saying, and in a round about way, but not, that Todd is saying, is that $$$$ have ruined the audiophile culture. Big name brands with big price tags have coopted and corrupted the process of getting great sound. They have warped perceptions and made it seem that invested $$$$ equal a high end, satisfying stereo. I disagree. I think good power and a good set of speakers, well setup in room with modest electronics can make a fantastic playback experience.

To be fair. My personal experience is that many people engaged in the hobby are placing a stereo in a common living space in the home. That right there ends the ability to get great sound. WAF and even the owners personal decor taste place the speakers in a space where they do not couple properly with the room. No amount of $$$ is going to fix it. But the industry has skillfully convinced people that $$ will make the difference. Now you have a hobbled system in a living room that is comprised of $400K to $750K in gear, that still can't get there. A $50K system set up properly in a dedicated space is going to knock the socks off all that invested money.

That is what I got from the OP attached article and what I find of interest. I miss the days of people sharing. I miss learning. I am tired of the angst and vinegar post that have roots in ego tied up in large financial investments of equipment.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Kingrex, for sharing your thoughts.

I agree that in the past there were certainly posts I could have handled better. I’d like to think I’ve learned from that. It is amazing to me how upset and irrational grown men become towards others if they don't agree that brand "X" is the best in the world.

But there is another part of this story that matters.

Axiss Audio is publicly listed as a paying sponsor of WBF, and Ron is a co-owner of WBF. Against that backdrop, Ron made numerous public statements concerning Axiss, me, and others—some of which are demonstrably false, and my attorneys have the screenshots and underlying evidence.

Both Ron and Steve have now received communications from our attorneys.

So when WBF says it doesn’t want to “get involved,” I have difficulty understanding that position. Ron - and WBF - CHOSE to involve themselves in this.

As we've seen in the past WBF has no problem deleting threads not helpful to their own personal goals. Heck - there are more people here than I can count who have posted their stories about being banned from WBF for daring not to love the WBF flavor-of-the-month sponsor.

Yet WBF chose to allow these clearly troubling threads to stand unchallenged, and even went so far as pinning the thread as a sticky for maximum visibility.

If a forum hosts disputed statements about people, prevents those people from responding, selectively removes some posts while allowing others to remain, and simultaneously accepts sponsorship money from an interested party, then questions about how those decisions were made are entirely legitimate. They have very, very clearly chosen to get involved and it certainly has the perception of being on the side of a company who they are receiving money from.

That doesn’t automatically prove anything improper.

But it absolutely makes transparency AND honesty relevant. Ron seems to be harping on that a lot lately yet he's still failed to simply tell us how much money he has received from Axiss as a sponsor while he took a clear side on this issue.

Who communicated with whom? What was said privately versus publicly? What role, if any, did sponsorship relationships play? Why were certain posts permitted while others were removed? Why were certain people allowed to speak while others were blocked from responding?

Those are factual questions.

And one of the interesting things about litigation is that communications and financial relationships relevant to the claims can potentially become subject to discovery.

If that occurs, the emails, texts and messages between the relevant people concerning me, Axiss, the litigation and the decisions made on WBF can speak for themselves.

Maybe the records show a series of completely independent decisions.

Maybe they show something else.

I don't need to speculate.

I want the documents. And we will get the documents.

Because after everything that has been said publicly, I think allowing the actual record to tell the story is the fairest outcome possible.

And if we're going to demand transparency from others in this hobby, that standard should apply equally to everyone.
 
Last edited:
Michael. Gordon again with another question. Again with no preconceptions and ill intent but I need to ask. Only bcause I want to understand this conflict and also seek transparency and truth. Is this conflict based, in any manner, on a grudge and past personal animosity between you and WBF? Or is this based on legitimate, valid concerns and your desire is to seek truth and transperance irregardless of past personal confrontations with WBF? Or a combination of both? As you know, WBF is sweeping this issue under the rug and seems to want no part of this conversation. One does wonder why. Best.
 
Last edited:
ggdudeabides said:
Michael. Gordon again with another question. Again with no preconceptions and ill intent but I need to ask. Only bcause I want to understand this conflict and also seek transparency and truth. Is this conflict based, in any manner, on a grudge and past personal animosity between you and WBF? Or is this based on legitimate, valid concerns and your desire is to seek truth and transperance irregardless of past personal confrontations with WBF? Or a combination of both? As you know, WBF is sweeping this issue under the rug and seems to want no part of this conversation. One does wonder why. Best.
Click to expand...

Hi Gordon — no worries with the questions. I know they are coming from a legitimate place. .

I think the answer has several parts, and if I'm going to be completely honest, I need to own some of it as well.

It began when I started discussing issues involving products from one of WBF's major sponsors. People had approached me with firsthand accounts of their experiences, and I believed those experiences deserved to be heard.

I talked about it on WBF and was attacked and called a liar.

Even when the people involved came forward on WBF to support what I said as true, I was still called a liar and received actual hate messages on WBF.

My position is simple and unwavering: people spending money on gear deserve honest information, whether it's positive or negative. And it forum owners who receive monies from these companies have their thumb on the scale, that is troubling.

To be clear: I certainly could have handled some things better. I have never shied away from owning that and trying to improve.

After repeated personal attacks and accusations towards me on WBF and the moderators allowing it, yes I let my emotions get the better of me in some of my responses.

I could have made the same points without getting drawn into personal arguments. That's on me and I own it. It's certainly easier said than done sometimes though.

After repeatedly being called a liar and people demanding evidence, I posted evidence for all to see. That's when it all changed.

The thread was immediately locked and not opened back up until their sponsor was allowed to respond. Then it was deleted. People were publicly warned not to mention the thread on WBF and if they did they would be banned. I made on post on my FB page about it and I was banned with no notice or warning.

So I made a video about it with actual screen shots (forgive me as this was some time ago and trying to remember the exact sequence. I should go watch my own video. LOL)

When my video gained traction, the deleted thread suddenly became visible again with many of my posts having been edited from what I actually wrote or completely deleted. Note this is something that has been posted as an issue about WBF both on WBF and here about WBF with numerous people having that same experience.

Those events raised serious questions for me about WBF and how it chooses to operate without being transparent.

Since then, other individuals have publicly described troubling experiences involving WBF and its members here. Some have even reported receiving death threats through the messages as well. I have no idea if what they are saying is true, however they chose to post their experience on this forum.

Questions in the industry started being asked about sponsorships, possible commercial relationships between owners and gear, known industry shills on WBF, and whether this is clearly disclosed.

Let me be VERY clear - I have NO problem with anyone in this industry making money. And I do believe WBF staff and owners should be allowed to make money or receive gear or what ever they want. My issue has ALWAYS been that of transparency and the perception of their thumb on the scale of honest discussions to the benefit of their undisclosed financial interests.

I'm not pursuing this because of some personal grudge against WBF or Ron Resnick. Instead Ron Resnick — whose forum has a publicly disclosed sponsorship relationship with AXISS Audio — chose to involve himself in this issue publicly and made serious accusations about me that were demonstrably false. He also owns a forum whose handling of certain statements and conduct has recently raised legal questions that are being dealt with.

I never chose to pursue any of this. Instead it was brought to me by Axiss Audio. I post regularly on my FB page showing facts and show the contradiction in their own claims, statements and posts and it has been eye opening for many people.

Let me say that again: Their own words, their own claims, contradicting themselves. None of it is my personal opinion.

As hard as it is to believe, I don't hold animosity towards them. Why? I don't have any energy left to be angry. I'm more worried about my father in law, my wife, and hoping my 85 year old mother still have more time here on earth with me. Having said that, don't confuse not having a grudge with making sure we hold them accountable for their actions that THEY chose to start and create.

At the end of the day this is just a hobby that some people have become mentally unhinged over.

I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinions, my taste in equipment, or even how I've handled this entire situation.

But I hope people can recognize that my beliefs have never changed: everyone has a right to differing opinions. However when you choose to come after me and my family with lies, I will not back down.



​

 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top