I'm Feeling Relentless

There’s something for everyone, and I guess with that being said those amps would need to be in something similar to the size of a barn, maybe even 2, 3, 4, 5...


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I’ll look out for them in Munich. If they were too much for your speakers, you could use them as an arc welder.


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honestly, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but any speaker that even remotely needs an amp like that has little interest to me.

Boulder already get's into this level amplifier, so there is a market for it, and you need 220v to feed it. this direction does not answer any question i'm asking. and i love scale and space and a big sound. but if you have to hear through and around lots of circuits and output devices then something important gets lost. I want my power to pay homage to nuance and purity first. I want a great first watt. and I want my speaker to be able to live with modest tube power if I choose.

all that said, more power to Dan for doing this, I hope it helps pay the bills, and it's likely good for the hobby.
 
That's why it is nice to have alternatives for those of us who feel that your "nuance and purity" is not found with tubes. I just wish I could play in Boulder's or Dan's newest sandbox.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
honestly, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but any speaker that even remotely needs an amp like that has little interest to me.

Boulder already get's into this level amplifier, so there is a market for it, and you need 220v to feed it. this direction does not answer any question i'm asking. and i love scale and space and a big sound. but if you have to hear through and around lots of circuits and output devices then something important gets lost. I want my power to pay homage to nuance and purity first. I want a great first watt. and I want my speaker to be able to live with modest tube power if I choose.

all that said, more power to Dan for doing this, I hope it helps pay the bills, and it's likely good for the hobby.
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Why would you say such Mike ..?
Why would this kind of amp disqualify any speaker, what if it's better when you drop it in ?

Fir starters,

1. 240V supply is superior to 120 as balanced power ..
2. Such high peak power delivery not only guarantees unclipped dynamics , but more importantly it keeps the amp operating in that 33% of power thd sweet spot , no thermal bias drift no change in sonics.

3. Large outputs doesn't necessarily affect the first watt , design and bias does.

4. IMO Unless the amp is a dud its a win win ...



Regards
 
still-one said:
That's why it is nice to have alternatives for those of us who feel that your "nuance and purity" is not found with tubes. I just wish I could play in Boulder's or Dan's newest sandbox.
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The Boulder is one of the mightiest of design achievements ....


That it is ...!!!
 
a.wayne said:
Why would you say such Mike ..?
Why would this kind of amp disqualify any speaker, what if it's better when you drop it in ?

Fir starters,

1. 240V supply is superior to 120 as balanced power ..
2. Such high peak power delivery not only guarantees unclipped dynamics , but more importantly it keeps the amp operating in that 33% of power thd sweet spot , no thermal bias drift no change in sonics.

3. Large outputs doesn't necessarily affect the first watt , design and bias does.

4. IMO Unless the amp is a dud its a win win ...

Regards
Click to expand...

i'm not being critical of any amp, especially one I have not heard. and what I wrote was focused on what sort of speaker might justify an amp like that......and I would pass on that speaker myself.

but on the amps side of things, I do also feel 'arc-welding' amplifiers have not yet done it for me. I want (1) a speaker that allows for a modest powered tube amp, and (2) that get's going with a nuanced and pure first watt. and amps that have dozens of output devices 'so far' have not been preferred by me. I prefer simple circuits, minimal parts, no global feedback, regardless of the power rating. my big darts have plenty of juice, but more in common with minimalist amps designs than high powered ones.

I was not critical of 220/240v per se. but not seen it personally provide an advantage yet in my travels. it's exponentially more difficult to find musical truth in big brute amps and hard to drive speakers. not impossible. as far as headroom and unclipped dynamics, the dart 458's are more than enough for those issues to be covered and still be minimalist......but too much headroom and dynamic capacity gets in the way to my ears. my 97db, 7 ohm speakers allow the big darts plenty of breathing room.

Boulder has rarely done audio shows I've attended, and so far I've not had an intensely musical Boulder experience.

some amps are duds. and i'm sure some brute amps sound wonderful.....but so far I've not heard that myself.

and an amp can sound pretty darn good, yet I might prefer my dart 458's or my Lamm ML3's. I am talking about preferences here, not good and bad. no one......i'm not.....inferring all or most very high powered amps are bad. only that on speakers I would choose, likely I would prefer a simpler design. which then returns us to my original point......if you 'need' that much power for a speaker, that speaker is not for me.
 
Just for everyone's information. The Relentless amps (according to Bill from DAG) will be available in the standard 110V option for the US market and won't require 220V. Of course DAG will prefer you running them with 220V, but that is not mandatory.
 
a.wayne said:
The Boulder is one of the mightiest of design achievements ....


That it is ...!!!
Click to expand...

The Boulders are indeed wonderful amplifiers and sounded outstanding at a recent Taipei audio show driving a set of German Physiks speakers that needed the juice that the Boulder's could dish out.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
i'm not being critical of any amp, especially one I have not heard. and what I wrote was focused on what sort of speaker might justify an amp like that......and I would pass on that speaker myself.

but on the amps side of things, I do also feel 'arc-welding' amplifiers have not yet done it for me. I want (1) a speaker that allows for a modest powered tube amp, and (2) that get's going with a nuanced and pure first watt. and amps that have dozens of output devices 'so far' have not been preferred by me. I prefer simple circuits, minimal parts, no global feedback, regardless of the power rating. my big darts have plenty of juice, but more in common with minimalist amps designs than high powered ones.

I was not critical of 220/240v per se. but not seen it personally provide an advantage yet in my travels. it's exponentially more difficult to find musical truth in big brute amps and hard to drive speakers. not impossible. as far as headroom and unclipped dynamics, the dart 458's are more than enough for those issues to be covered and still be minimalist......but too much headroom and dynamic capacity gets in the way to my ears. my 97db, 7 ohm speakers allow the big darts plenty of breathing room.

Boulder has rarely done audio shows I've attended, and so far I've not had an intensely musical Boulder experience.

some amps are duds. and i'm sure some brute amps sound wonderful.....but so far I've not heard that myself.

and an amp can sound pretty darn good, yet I might prefer my dart 458's or my Lamm ML3's. I am talking about preferences here, not good and bad. no one......i'm not.....inferring all or most very high powered amps are bad. only that on speakers I would choose, likely I would prefer a simpler design. which then returns us to my original point......if you 'need' that much power for a speaker, that speaker is not for me.
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Not disagreeing with your at all , as many fail at the all out power attempt due to the difficulty and i have heard many minimalist amps fail too , toobs or SS , so no one camp has a lock on the science IMO.


Interestingly thou the darts would not be considered a minimalist amp at all , it runs NFB has a robust output stage , input and driver stage , uses degeneration , etc, so its pretty similar to many attempts, far from a minimalist amp .

A pity you have not been able to give a Boulder a run , i have only heard their Pre and it was not a good showing with the mix the dealer had so i would like to hear your take on one in your room and with your typical thorough effort , less see if it's a player or a Poser ...


Regards
 
Mike Lavigne said:
honestly, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but any speaker that even remotely needs an amp like that has little interest to me.

Boulder already get's into this level amplifier, so there is a market for it, and you need 220v to feed it. this direction does not answer any question i'm asking. and i love scale and space and a big sound. but if you have to hear through and around lots of circuits and output devices then something important gets lost. I want my power to pay homage to nuance and purity first. I want a great first watt. and I want my speaker to be able to live with modest tube power if I choose.

all that said, more power to Dan for doing this, I hope it helps pay the bills, and it's likely good for the hobby.
Click to expand...

Mike, I think Dan is doing this because he can :D

There are 30 customers ready to part with their cash - so why not. It will be overkill for any speakers, but I am sure the purity will be there in the first watt of power.
 
XV-1 said:
Mike, I think Dan is doing this because he can :D

There are 30 customers ready to part with their cash - so why not. It will be overkill for any speakers, but I am sure the purity will be there in the first watt of power.
Click to expand...

i'm sure the first watt is plenty fine, but the question is always 'plenty fine......compared to what exactly'. at premium prices all that current capability means little if it does not also do the delicate things too at the highest level. and whether you have that complete and continuousness with note decay and tonal harmonics. and it might get those things fully done.....I've just not heard that from Boulder....Yet. the enemy of the excellent is the astonishing. i'm listening to a dsd64 file of Arthur Rubenstein Beethoven Piano Sonata's right now with the Lamm ML3 Signature amps. quite a fantastic music reproduction experience. alive, vivid, colorful and immediate. the inner textures are addicting. overtones decay into forever. the connection is intoxicating. you don't care it's only 32 watts. your body embraces the experience. and this isn't even vinyl or tape.....it's just digital!

sure; it takes the right speaker to allow 32 SET watts to do justice to a concert grand piano; but when it's optimized there is a mainlining of the whole package of musical energy.

I can tell you that the 458's and ML3's are the neighborhood those Boulders (or the D'Ag Relentless) play in and those musicality and human touch levels are lofty targets to reach.

it's in all our interests for these ultimate type products to be able to do it all......even better than the 458's or Lamm ML3's.......so best wishes to these products that they can. at some point i'd enjoy hearing that.
 
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