If You Were Starting Over...

MDP

MDP

Behavior Moderator (be nice police!)
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
4,332
Location
Lake Country, Georgia
What would you address first?

I know that the room is BIG factor, especially after Jim Smith worked his magic on my system. But there are very few of us that can start there.

So let's focus on gear!

First step for me would be finding the right speaker, that's always been the one thing I want to get right.

What about you? Where would you start?
 
I would start at my shrink's office followed by my divorce attorney's :) Ok on a serious note. I would start with speakers that have active bass modules.
 
...Id choose a career path that pays more. to be honest, if I had the financial resources I'm thinking of I probably wouldn't be in this hobby but engage other pursuits where I could live out my Walter Mitty-like fantasies.
 
First get a pension and social security raise or win the lottery and then, build a specialized room based on a pair of speakers and amp (s) purchased from Mike and then have Jim Smith set the room up.
 
I would start by making a decision about system philosophy: do I want high efficiency speakers with SET/OTL amps or do I want traditional dynamic loudspeakers with big tube amps or solid state or do I want something completely different like omnipolar or electrostatic?

After that, budget! I know, not a word you hear often in audio land, but a realistic budget is very important. Blow your wad on speakers and you have nothing left for amp, preamp, sources, cables, rack, voodoo - and most importantly, music.

After that, power (AC) and room. A full examination of my room, setup, etc.

After that, source. Type of source(s), etc. Vinyl only? Digital only? Is tape in the mix? Combination?

Now...speakers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm pretty much in your situation Mark, in that my listening room is also my living/dining room, so I don't have the luxury of adding room treatments. However when I one day buy an architech-designed house, my first priority will be building a large, dedicated listening room double-walled (similar to Mike's studio), with a floating floor like Magico, dedicated 20a lines with audiophile grade conduit going back to an Equitech Distribution box (a Stromtank would maybe be nicer, but too $$) & 5 Furutech GTX-D wpo's.

Next step is I would install SMT diffusers, ASC bass traps & RW Acoustics art panels. For seating, I would add 4 Eames lounge chairs + Ottomans (of course!). You can gain just so much from the room once you reach our level of gear.
 
Well, aside the all important room-acoustics factor, I would start from the very beggining, that is, the signal source (no matter if analogue or digital). One cannot improve an originally poor signal.

Enviado desde mi LG-E430 mediante Tapatalk
 
First thing to decide on is what kind of sound I enjoy and want and then I pick the gear to deliver it.

This should start with the music I enjoy. A system delivering the best boom for house music or earth shattering rock is likely to differ from a system I would use to determine whether Diana Krall plays Bösendorfer or Steinway, the brand strings the Acoustic Alchemy are using or what kind of violin Haifetz is playing on a certain recording.

Starting with speakers, whether stiff cone materials (beryllium, aluminum), controlled cabinet (like Magico, Raidho) or smoother cone materials (paper woofers, silk dome tweeters or horns), sounding cabinet (like Devore Orangutan 0/96, Harbeth). Speaker choice will also depend on room properties, whether I can eliminate room interference or if I do have to integrate it. That choice will determine what kind of amplification and cabling I need.

Depending on speaker choice I will then know whether a transistor amp will need to brute-force a bitch of a load to behave or whether there is freedom for some tubes to do their filigrane magic. Sources you can play equally well with both approaches.

While I would not use cables to alter the sound, they will deliver the final spices to make the mix to make it perfect. Surprisingly, for me power nowadays being the most important, as they will influence the entire system, LS' coming second and ICs third.

Sources I would also pick to fit music choices, whether a tubed source for small ensemble jazz, direct drive 'table for large orchestras or DSD for a broader classic bouquet, or just good PRAT with an ever evolving FPGA DAC.

So, luckily there never is one way to do it right, a simple correct answer or a true final solution - that's why this is so much fun (and the bill ever so high).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Kuoppis said:
First thing to decide on is what kind of sound I enjoy and want and then I pick the gear to deliver it.

This should start with the music I enjoy. A system delivering the best boom for house music or earth shattering rock is likely to differ from a system I would use to determine whether Diana Krall plays Bösendorfer or Steinway, the brand strings the Acoustic Alchemy are using or what kind of violin Haifetz is playing on a certain recording.

Starting with speakers, whether stiff cone materials (beryllium, aluminum), controlled cabinet (like Magico, Raidho) or smoother cone materials (paper woofers, silk dome tweeters or horns), sounding cabinet (like Devore Orangutan 0/96, Harbeth). Speaker choice will also depend on room properties, whether I can eliminate room interference or if I do have to integrate it. That choice will determine what kind of amplification and cabling I need.

Depending on speaker choice I will then know whether a transistor amp will need to brute-force a bitch of a load to behave or whether there is freedom for some tubes to do their filigrane magic. Sources you can play equally well with both approaches.

While I would not use cables to alter the sound, they will deliver the final spices to make the mix to make it perfect. Surprisingly, for me power nowadays being the most important, as they will influence the entire system, LS' coming second and ICs third.

Sources I would also pick to fit music choices, whether a tubed source for small ensemble jazz, direct drive 'table for large orchestras or DSD for a broader classic bouquet, or just good PRAT with an ever evolving FPGA DAC.

So, luckily there never is one way to do it right, a simple correct answer or a true final solution - that's why this is so much fun (and the bill ever so high).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Hi.
Where I've said "source signal", I meant a piece of gear really truthfull to what's In the recording, nothing more (and nothing less).
If a bad engineered record, after passing throu the entire reproduction equipment, sounds "impressive", something is going truly wrong with such equipment and/or the listening room.
Hi-Fi, despite some "metaphysical" approaches, is just a matter of SOUND. Music and "musicality" are the responsibility of musicians, not of electronic gear.
The final (and most improbable) goal of reproduced music/sound is to be an IDENTIC copy of the original, without adding or substracting one single thing.
Difficult task, I'm affraid.

Enviado desde mi G620S-L01 mediante Tapatalk
 
This is literally like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? Source over speakers, or is it the other way around? I've always started with speakers and then worked my way backwards. While I understand a poor source can't be overcome by a great speaker (indeed, it just makes it worse), I also know a bad speaker will simply mask or color a great source. My limited experience has been that there is far more difference in speakers compared to sources, therefore my primary concern would be to find a speaker that best represents my version of reality. These days, I have to concentrate pretty hard to tell the difference between competent DAC's, however the difference between a planar vs dynamic speaker is readily apparent.
 
Find a speaker that works in the room you have. That most likely is not the most expensive speaker. It may also might not be your favorite. For example, maybe your favorite is a planer speaker, but your room just doesn't work with it. So maybe you have to go with a cone speaker. To me, it has to be musically involving, for without that all is lost. Some others want a detail monster. Whatever you enjoy.

Then get an amplifier that matches up to that style of speaker. An amp must control the speaker and get it loud enough for you. Different speakers require different amps.

Then get the BEST source that you can afford and makes sense for you. Not what makes sense for somebody on a forum or store - for you.
 
1969 GT 500 Shelby Mustang, then the speakers.....
 
Best headphone system possible. Live with it for one year then go from there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
topspeed said:
This is literally like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? Source over speakers, or is it the other way around? I've always started with speakers and then worked my way backwards. While I understand a poor source can't be overcome by a great speaker (indeed, it just makes it worse), I also know a bad speaker will simply mask or color a great source. My limited experience has been that there is far more difference in speakers compared to sources, therefore my primary concern would be to find a speaker that best represents my version of reality. These days, I have to concentrate pretty hard to tell the difference between competent DAC's, however the difference between a planar vs dynamic speaker is readily apparent.
Click to expand...
I agree with you in one fact: a great system (amp + speakers + good matching between them and room acoudtics) is quite revealing about the source quality, for the good or the bad.
My point goes beyond: the very beginning of all is the recording itself. And this is a matter the consumer (most of us) cannot control or change in any way. More: how can you be sure you're hearing at home something similar to what was intended by musicians/engineers/producer in the recording sessions? Simply, you don't have any reference to compare with.
One thing is for sure: no matter if my system is perfectly choosed, matched and more costly than the USA Defense Department budget, I will never be foolished by, say, a well recorded violin solo and vs.a real violin being played in my living room.
And the real violin sound interacts with my living room acoustics, too.



Enviado desde mi LG-E430 mediante Tapatalk
 
I must add that you, Topseed, are absolutely right when you say it is far easier to find differences between speakers than, in your own words, DACs, considering these what they obviously are: signal sources.
Things change quite a lot when the sources are TTs, arms and carts (MM or MC). These analogue electromechanical devices suffer almost the same limitations than speakers (please, analogue-headed guys excuse my anathema). One can hear clear differences without needing a double-blind ABX comparison (by the way: it will be very interesting to make rigorous tests of that type between vinyl and digital versions of the SAME audio program; I'm pretty sure that most "audiophiles" will prefer the vinyl, just because disc surface noisy "delicatessen" give a clue to decant the option for what is previously decided by non rational prejudices).
Something that confuses me is what a supposed "golden earring" person expects from an audio equipment: a mere pleasure for the ears? Many non expensive things can do the job. A passionate MUSICAL experience at home? Well, costly and laboriously acquired gear only can do a little bit non intrusive task in his/her search for the goal. An intricate, expensive, time absorbing, obsessive hobby? If it the case, sound and music have little to do. An EXACT, indistinguishable "replicant" of the REAL THING? Apart the illusory character of this approach, it forgets something obvious: all of us live surrounded by the highest possible fidelity: the sound of the real world that constantly comes to our ears.This extreme but very respectable position leaves to a logic conclusion: forget all confidence in your loved audio toys and go to the concert hall, the jazz club, the disco, etc.
I suppose my statements may seem pessimistic, but I do think they are simply realistic. From my point of view, "audiophilia" needs to be washed with a good bath of common sense.
Please don't think about me in terms of someone who comes to spoil the fun. Instead, see in me one who loves music desperately and has becomes an "audiophile" for that reason, but for that same reason has become the "eskeptical audiophile" after a long way of delusions.


Enviado desde mi G620S-L01 mediante Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top