I2S Cables?

G

GoldTone

New member
Joined
May 16, 2024
Messages
4
Location
West Coast USA
I'm new here, looks like a cool place to read and interact with fellow audio lovers.

I was wondering what people are using for I2S cables, now that the HDMI standard is used by a larger number of transports and D/A converters? I know some of them use different pin configurations so that's something to be careful about. Assuming your transport does talk the same language as your converter, it doesn't seem like there are very many options compared to power cables, speaker cables, or other more traditional types.

So what are people around here using?
 
I2S is an INTERNAL protocol - not a type of cable - often different from one manufacturer to another, used to communicate within a device. Some have used it for external communications, some of these to get around SACD legal restrictions which apply when one manufacturer's device sends DSD data to another manufacturer's device. A vendor may choose different physical media (e.g., HDMI is one) with different signaling conventions for the cable media chosen. The thing to be cognizant of is that there is no real recognized standard that a manufacturer can design to and be confident that his device will function properly with another manufacturer's unless commitments are made, specifications are agreed upon, testing happens, etc. The most useful discussion I have seen on this topic can be found in the MSB Technologies forum.
 
ptman said:
I use an AudioMica Artoc Ultra Reference RJ45 for the I2S connection between my Bricasti M19 transport and M1 Series II DAC. Sounds great.
Click to expand...
There shouldn't be a problem connecting pieces from the same manufacturer using their own proprietary I2S protocol. And I note that Bricasti describes their I2S as "proprietary," whereas a review of the M19 in Future Audiophile takes the liberty of describing the same Bricasti's I2S as "the standard data protocol." This is misinformation.
 
Last edited:
GSOphile said:
There shouldn't be a problem connecting pieces from the same manufacturer using their own proprietary I2S protocol. And I note that Bricasti describes their I2S as "proprietary," whereas a review of the M19 in Future Audiophile takes the liberty of describing the same Bricasti's I2S as "the standard data protocol." This is misinformation.
Click to expand...
Bricasti uses an RJ45 cable for their i2S transmission between the M19 and for example, the M21. I do not think they use the HDMI form factor.

Apparently, they can still perform the ‘standard data protocol’ with an RJ45 cable. 🤷‍♂️
 
GoldTone said:
I'm new here, looks like a cool place to read and interact with fellow audio lovers.

I was wondering what people are using for I2S cables, now that the HDMI standard is used by a larger number of transports and D/A converters? I know some of them use different pin configurations so that's something to be careful about. Assuming your transport does talk the same language as your converter, it doesn't seem like there are very many options compared to power cables, speaker cables, or other more traditional types.

So what are people around here using?
Click to expand...
I use a Tubulus Concentus HDMI cable between my Antipodes K50 and the i2S module in my MSB Premier DAC. Works like a charm!
 
crwilli said:
Bricasti uses an RJ45 cable for their i2S transmission between the M19 and for example, the M21. I do not think they use the HDMI form factor.

Apparently, they can still perform the ‘standard data protocol’ with an RJ45 cable. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Correct. They do not use HDMI. Yes, they could have used either for a proprietary version of I2S. According to MSB, who supports several non-MSB versions of I2S via HDMI, there is no recognized I2S standard. MSB believes that the HDMI form factor has advantages over RJ45 for providing a supported interface for several selected vendors.
 
Thank you for the replies (and the warm welcome).

My most recent upgrade is the Eversolo T10 transport. That replaces my old SOtM SMS-200 which only had USB output. I'll be upgrading my DAC next. Everything I'm considering seems to have I2S over HDMI and should work with my new T10.

I have checked out the Tubulus models as those come highly recommended. I also hear good things about the Wireworld Platinum, Veritas Optimus, and the affordable option from DH Labs. I'll keep reading up and see which ones appeal to me, then try to demo those.
 
GoldTone said:
Thank you for the replies (and the warm welcome).

My most recent upgrade is the Eversolo T10 transport. That replaces my old SOtM SMS-200 which only had USB output. I'll be upgrading my DAC next. Everything I'm considering seems to have I2S over HDMI and should work with my new T10.
Click to expand...
Nope. You're missing the point. It's your DAC choice and the flavor of I2S input that the DAC is expecting to see over whatever HDMI cable you select that will matter. If it's not an Eversolo DAC with an I2S input, I don't know what more I can say.

I have no experience/opinion on various premium HDMI cable offerings.
 
Last edited:
When I added the LAiV uDDC to my Harmony DAC I found an old 1/2 meter HDMI cable out of my box of old home theater HDMI cables. Its only redeeming quality was that it had ferrites on each end. I plugged it in to each unit. It was recognised by both and I've been happy with its performance. I think it was around $20 at the time of purchase.
 
GSOphile said:
Nope. You're missing the point. It's your DAC choice and the flavor of I2S input that the DAC is expecting to see over whatever HDMI cable you select that will matter. If it's not an Eversolo DAC with an I2S input, I don't know what more I can say.

I have no experience/opinion on various premium HDMI cable offerings.
Click to expand...

I don't think I am. I'm not trying to be argumentative at all, so please don't take this the wrong way. And I'm aware that there is technically no set standard that totally governs I2S outputs when done via HDMI.

However there are a few common types of pin configuration that have emerged which are used by the majority of brands out there. The most popular I'm aware of is used by PS Audio, Sonore, Holo Audio, Denafrips, Matrix Audio, Audio GD, Mola Mola, and various others. That means a transport by any one of these will work well with a DAC from anyone else on this list.

Eversolo is one of several brands I'm aware of which offer configurable pin definitions for their I2S output. Some do it via hardware (DIP switches for example) but others like Eversolo do it in software, giving you 8 different choices. That should cover the majority of DACs out there which feature I2S HDMI inputs, including everyone on my list above.

So yes, obviously sticking with the same brand for transport and DAC is a great way to take the guesswork out of it. But things have evolved by now to the point where there is a lot more interoperability involved than you are insinuating.

My question really was about cables and what folks here are using or enjoying. User crwilli above is using a Tubulus I2S between his Antipodes transport and MSB DAC, with great results. So I am just looking for more examples like that.
 
Seems to me a related question is what impact does the HDMI cable have on the i2S signals? I understand that’s a perpetual $64,000 question surrounded by mystery, intrigue and sometimes intense emotions.

My Chat GPT friend provided the following when asked what the most important aspects of an HDMI /i2s cable would be in order of priority. Here are the top four:

1
Correct, stable characteristic impedance
Critical
Minimizes reflections and preserves the shape/timing of the high-speed digital edges.

2
Matched propagation delay / low pair-to-pair skew
Critical		I2S sends clock and data separately. Their relative arrival times matter.

3
Consistent conductor geometry
Very high
Determines impedance, skew, capacitance and inductance. Precision construction matters more than exotic materials.

4
Effective shielding / common-mode noise control
Very high
Limits RF/EMI coupling and can reduce high-frequency noise transferred between components.
It seems construction is more important than the metallurgy of the wire (copper or silver for example).
 
Last edited:
I haven't looked at HDMI spec in years. When I did, I do know it's more important to have the current high speed and other up to date specs. I used Tributaries HDMI for my HT stuff. I know HDMI was hotly debated back in the day whether it's worth spending more. I bought some $40.00 cables and was having some drop out issues, went to the Tributaries and everything worked fine. Wire World is also a good brand.

I'm not sure where IS2 ranks in digital connections IMO I'd avoid using HDMI. Just trauma from early adoption, LOL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top