I have been calling expensive amps as high ended for 30 years
- Thread starter bandor
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Myles B. Astor
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Yes that was one amplifier that never got to hear. The ER strain gauge cartridge system was legendary and still know someone that has one.
Also, while on the topic of small wattage ss amplifiers of the day, wasn't the Bedini 25/25 considered one of the better units of its day? I don't think the 100/100 was though in the same league.
Yes there is a chap in Arizona with the Strain Gauge functioning I believe
on 25 watters for the time --hard to go past the ML2 Monos
Bruce
NorthStar
New member
Mark, that's what I liked about some of the members over there (including the founding members, the mod force and the administration). ...The unfair and often recurring beating on some poor members, and the spreading of the disease.
* His patent was made available (he almost posted it), and Amir (who posted it) asked all of you to give the poor guy a break. That's what I was told by a good friend from over there. ...A nice welcome, like almost the usual ....
It is truly sad for the rest (big majority) of the other good/great members.
Myles B. Astor
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What's untrue about what Mark said? You didn't read the thread as you admitted (I guess it was your banned friend from AS that told you) and don't have the foggiest idea of what actually transpired. In fact, Bandor, despite several requests for the cable patent and self professed paranoia in the thread, never revealed his patent. It was Amir who looked up, found the patent and actually posted the patent, not Bandor as he has chosen to go as on Audioshark. No, Bandor was simply trying to use the opportunity as an advertorial and backed out of providing the cables for evaluation. And no one jumped down his throat; they were as you are so fond of saying, only looking to educate themselves.
So next time, please get your facts right.
So next time, please get your facts right.
NorthStar
New member
If Amir could find his patent anyone else could too.
Your guess is wrong (about who told me).
I have the full picture about what exactly transpired (I've seen more than enough thank you very much).
{Tom - mod - banned him because he didn't read the TOS! Say what!!!}
If I would have been at the place of that newer member I would have felt less than cooperative with the regular member's aggressive requests (the usual suspects). ...Like so many other new members were treated similarly, under an aggressive microscope that brings nothing else other than chaos and disharmony.
So next time please get your facts straight and don't second guess me. ...Do you see a sign on my forehead that says "ignorant"?
Now, tell me, what is untrue about what I said? We're all old enough here to make our own mind.
* Mark made a remark here about our OP (bandor), a newer member; I replied to his remark. And that is it. Leave it.
This thread is about ex-gen amps; not cables, or patent, or Keith Robberding.
Bandor (amps) is here, Keithhr (cables) was over there, and not bandor over there like you just said above.
Myles, your view is your own; who knows what info Keith would have provided and if he would have accepted Caelin's very generous offer, if it wouldn't have been for all the aggressiveness shown towards him, and if he would be still alive today (not have been banned like that as if he was guilty of an horrible crime - read posts #27 - 36 - 40 - 47 - 49 - and #52 for an idea).
bandor
Banned
- Thread Author
- #27
Frankly, I'm afraid to say anything, I didn't have an agenda at wbf. I used the name Bandor here because I have been using their drivers for 20 years, and as of late they seem to not be in business anymore. They are the main drivers in my speaker array of 4 drivers per side operating in the 130hz to 25k hz with no crossover. When I was first challenged about my wire I offered to give anyone a listen that was curious regarding my claims. I didn't mean to get on the bad signs of tos for the forum, I innocently started this thread while recalling the memories I had of listening to 30 year old amps which seemed to be uniformly dark and not extended in the treble. Some people over there made disparaging comments regarding my intellect and stating that they must have reduced the requirements for getting a patent in the first place. I took several negative hits and the posts disappeared as if by magic. I must have requested at least 10 times for people curious if I was full of shit to come over with their best test discs and give it a try. All my statements were made in innocence or so I thought. People came at me as if I was evil and at the end of the day I was wondering what wrong I had committed. My patent was labeled as a joke and yet with all the hatred directed towards me I have not received any requests to have a listen so that people could laugh after hearing my system. I believe that hearing is believing and I know for a fact that If I play one of my special test discs if anything that I've never heard before comes forth, it is an indication that detail doesn't lie. All of my listening was based upon being able to hear more recorded information.
I can only thank NorthStar for his kind remarks. In all my years in audio, all I wanted to do was make a contribution in the art of playback or recording. I was reluctant to disclose info about my patent because every time I did, bad things happened.
So if people wanted to make fun of me for listening to wire that was so small you can't see it with the naked eye, so be it.
I actually thought it was neat that people laughed at what I had discovered, and it was also clear that nobody actually understood what the basis for my patent was.
I have the feeling that I will be treated in a civil manner here. Of course even my first thread was challenged fiercely. I just made the claim that early amps were really rolled off or high ended, as I put it. Maybe the people that disagreed weren't old enough to remember how dark, the early threshold and audio research amps were.
I can only thank NorthStar for his kind remarks. In all my years in audio, all I wanted to do was make a contribution in the art of playback or recording. I was reluctant to disclose info about my patent because every time I did, bad things happened.
So if people wanted to make fun of me for listening to wire that was so small you can't see it with the naked eye, so be it.
I actually thought it was neat that people laughed at what I had discovered, and it was also clear that nobody actually understood what the basis for my patent was.
I have the feeling that I will be treated in a civil manner here. Of course even my first thread was challenged fiercely. I just made the claim that early amps were really rolled off or high ended, as I put it. Maybe the people that disagreed weren't old enough to remember how dark, the early threshold and audio research amps were.
Myles B. Astor
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Did or didn't you say Bandor revealed his patent? He didn't, Amir did. That's all. You were wrong and admit it. Had he revealed the patent when asked, there would have been no story.
Bandor chose not to reveal information not because of pressure from the WBF members but because he admitted to being paranoid about someone stealing his ideas. All the WBF members were trying to do is become more educated about Bandor's many and numerous claims. You know about wanting to become educated. So stop your obfuscating and blaming everything on WBF.
bandor
Banned
- Thread Author
- #29
in case anyone here wants to read what my patent actually says, here's the number Patent 7,504,588
The hardest part of my testing was finding a way to actually work with 56gauge wire which is .000464 diameter inches.
a one pound spool of this wire contains 1,283,000 feet which is 244 miles, it took me quite a while to teach myself a technique
to take it off of a spool. People on the other forum read the patent and acted as though I were daft. I explained it to the patent office and they though my reasoning was sound.
The hardest part of my testing was finding a way to actually work with 56gauge wire which is .000464 diameter inches.
a one pound spool of this wire contains 1,283,000 feet which is 244 miles, it took me quite a while to teach myself a technique
to take it off of a spool. People on the other forum read the patent and acted as though I were daft. I explained it to the patent office and they though my reasoning was sound.
Bandor - first off, congrats on obtaining a patent. As someone who has been down that road many times, it is neither inexpensive nor easy. Second, do you have any actual real user experiences/data/blind tests you can share? Do you have people who have compared your cables vs. competing cables and can come here to share their experiences - good, bad or indifferent?
I did read through your patent, and a lot of what I read appears to be theoretical. It would be nice to hear some real world examples.
I did read through your patent, and a lot of what I read appears to be theoretical. It would be nice to hear some real world examples.
GaryProtein
New member
You can make almost any claims you want in a patent these days--not so in the past.
NorthStar
New member
1. Yes, I did say that (Keithhr) posted his patent, but it was Amir who did. ...Not the end of the world.
2. (a) WBF is a great audio site with many great members (experts and all); now some gone and others almost extinct.
I have no problem at all with WBF (I met some very nice people there in my almost three years); it was a solid/steady home for me. And it's certainly not few individuals who are going to change my perspective and remove my dignity.
2. (b) Everything? No Myles, right now just this: bandor (Keith) is here (AS), and he never did any harm to no one! ...Here, and even over there!
_____________________
* My first amp was an integrated amp (1967 or so). I don't remember the brand and I don't have a single clue about its frequency response. Back then, just like today, I simply enjoyed the music with a smile in my heart.
And Keith, welcome! ...With time we'll have more to share together and learn from one another. ...And always with the utmost mutual respect, patience, discipline, and simple/friendly joie-de-vivre filled from real appreciation and pride and compassionate humanity, in the true spirit of mankind. ...Here, in the now on our planet Earth.
NorthStar
New member
Bobby, proper English please……. ! LOL ! ….bustin' your chops, just an ounce or two of levity.
Regarding claim of poor amps of the eighties…..not completely. Even with the advanced technology we have today I'd wager the percentage of subpar gear might be even greater today.
FWIW, my Maggie MGIII's sounded superb with Threshold Stasis powering them !
_____________________
NorthStar
New member
In the 80s I remember my Pioneer Elite integrated stereo amp (A/B), and it was a very fine amp and with a wide frequency range.
Now they're into Class D (ICE)! ...With limited frequency response!
...How do you expect to play your hi-rez audio files (192/32 - DSD - ...) from it?
Now they're into Class D (ICE)! ...With limited frequency response!
...How do you expect to play your hi-rez audio files (192/32 - DSD - ...) from it?
NorthStar
New member
If more people were more generous and compassionate and well educated there would be more peace and beneficial knowledge on our planet.
...With less crime, less people in jail, less disharmony. ...Less police officers, less lawyers, less judges, less jails, less corruption.
Before audio was invented there were men, women, and children. ...And with human values first. ...A less "polluted" world.
...With less crime, less people in jail, less disharmony. ...Less police officers, less lawyers, less judges, less jails, less corruption.
Before audio was invented there were men, women, and children. ...And with human values first. ...A less "polluted" world.
NorthStar
New member
"Levity" - manque de serieux (in French). ...Yes Dave, Inglese is my second language indeed, and I often make typos.
...Or sometimes, for some people, I don't always come across the way they would love to.
Blame only human nature.
...From both the giving and receiving end.
laynesaddiction
Member
Gary, the big Apogees bore no resemblance to the other models in the line. While Apogees were never an easy load to drive eg. they created business for Krell and Classe, the big ones were a beast and even the Krells gave up the ghost. (The impedance dropped as low as 0.25 ohms and we didn't even talk about phase angles back then!
Myles,
I never had any experience with the original big Apogees or the Scintillas for that matter, so I can’t comment on what amps could or could not drive them properly in the day. However (to the point of crummy 1980s amps), to my tastes, in the late 80s I found that the pairing of the Apogee Divas with a Krell KSA-250 quite astounding. In some ways, I still feel that system was one of the best I have heard (although I am sure nostalgia is kicking in). To the point though, the Krell seemed to have no issues driving a still “hard to drive” Diva. I wonder why it had problems with the earlier Apogees (were they really that much harder to drive properly?). Although I can believe issue could arise as even the later (supposedly friendlier) Apogees were hard to drive as at reasonably loud volumes even a more recent Pass X350.5 worked hard to drive the Apogee Duetta Signatures I had at the time.
BobM
New member
The big original Apogees, like the Scintilla or Full Range were indeed the hard ones to drive. The Duetta's and Calipers and Diva's came a bit later and were made somewhat more efficient. Now, the revamped and revitalized Apogees can be updated with a simplified crossover that makes them more efficient, more dynamic and easier to drive, even with a reasonable sized tube amp.
I am driving my original Duetta Sigs with a McCormack DNA500. Seems to control them very well. My buddy has the rebuilt Duetta and he was driving it with a 100 watt Cary, but has moved up to a Tube Research Labs 200 watt model (yes, it improved things). The service tech that rebuilt them claims that they are now 4-5 ohm and 87db efficient, which is a long way from a horn, but much better than the 3 ohm and 83db inefficient originals.
I am driving my original Duetta Sigs with a McCormack DNA500. Seems to control them very well. My buddy has the rebuilt Duetta and he was driving it with a 100 watt Cary, but has moved up to a Tube Research Labs 200 watt model (yes, it improved things). The service tech that rebuilt them claims that they are now 4-5 ohm and 87db efficient, which is a long way from a horn, but much better than the 3 ohm and 83db inefficient originals.