I have been calling expensive amps as high ended for 30 years

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bandor

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since the early 80's there has been one quality that set expensive amps apart from all the rest, and I don't think anyone will guess what it is. In the beginning before exotic or purposful audio cable came on the scene, there was one constant. One could hook up expensive amplifiers with any lamp cord wire and the amps never sounded bad, and they should have sounded horrible, glary, screechy, not extended, poor frequency response etc. They almost always sounded smooth, pleasant and even melodic when THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE.
I CAME UP WITH A PHRASE TO ACCOUNT FOR THIS. the amps, in my opinion were "high ended, or rolled off to the extent that they never sounded honest. I've never heard anyone comment on this trend and maybe other people thought about it but let it lay. I got tired of hearing rolled off, inaccurate, dishonest sound that others lauded as having a silky midrange, tube like quality,
BALDERDASH, THEY WERE JUST BAD ROLLED OFF AMPLIFIERS.
ANYONE AGREE WITH MY OBSERVATION???????
 
I will say this much, most of the SS amps from the 80's were awful sounding. If you could find some Perraux with MOSFETS, it was decent. Otherwise, many were just plain awful. YMMV.
 
I guess I have a unique perspective and that's ok, mike at least almost gave me a maybe, but I still stick by my observation, they should have sounded, glary, screechy, hard , dark and closed in. Maybe If I keep picking new adjectives I can get someone to agree a bit more.
 
I don't think any of that is true...What I recall from the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's was dominant forces. That is depending on the era, certain brands were dominant forces in the market and really kind of best in class. Fisher and Scott in the 60's, Marantz and Pioneer in the 70's, Yamaha and Technics in the 80's, Sony and such in the 90's...

I have omitted many bands (Sansui, Denon, Nakamichi, etc) but the point is these were not garbage years. The just had different dominant players. Example, no way you could compare a 90's Fisher to a 60's Fisher...the older quality would trash it. Same with beauties from Marantz.

A good example of this is looking at the consumer turntable evolution which went from clunky and heavy (but still quality sounding Garrards, Duals, etc.. to the sleeker and high quality Pioneers, Marantz, later Dual's etc...and then what ? When the demand fizzled and we transitioned, turntables were like close and play toys...plastic garbage that came with STACK RACKS...

But none of that means that high end audio was some sort of scam or rolled off facsimile of the real deal...Sometimes you get what you pay for, sometimes you don't but only your ears know...
 
I have noticed that all the amplifiers that were at the very top in performance in all eras had one thing in common.

Massive heat output.

And there were some very fine sounding amps from the 70s and 80s - even by today's standards. The Kenwood amps come to mind.


Caelin Gabriel
President
Shunyata Research
 
Sorry, I don't agree at all--and you don't need super expensive cables.

Good amplifiers will sound good (not their best, but still good) when connected with twist ties.
 
Yup..Kenwood was another...Harmon Kardon...And yes, some of them definitely put out some heat..but sweet sounding...Loved my old Marantz...but can they compete with today ? I don't know...side by side not available to me right now...But QUITE happy with my NEW Marantz...what I love about it is its a Stereo amp but has the same amount of inputs as an good AV receiver..usually with the older ones you had Phono, Tape, AUX, Tuner...period ..My new one has 7 analog inputs...:exciting:

Okay, off topic...LOL
 
I was speaking specifically of amps in the mcintosh, krell, audio research, threshold class of amps, I wasn't aware of kenwood 30 years ago. A high end amp 30 years ago consisted of just a few brands and they were all rolled off bar none from my recollection
 
bandor said:
I was speaking specifically of amps in the mcintosh, krell, audio research, threshold class of amps, I wasn't aware of kenwood 30 years ago. A high end amp 30 years ago consisted of just a few brands and they were all rolled off bar none from my recollection
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30 years ago, the frequency response of amplifiers was well into the ultrasonic range and not rolled off at all.
 

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Mike said:
I will say this much, most of the SS amps from the 80's were awful sounding. If you could find some Perraux with MOSFETS, it was decent. Otherwise, many were just plain awful. YMMV.
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The Amber 70 was an oasis in a desert of bad SS amps.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
The Amber 70 was an oasis in a desert of bad SS amps.
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My first experience with a very good sounding solid state amplifier was with the original Electrocompaniet 25w amplifier designed by Mati Otala. I still keep an Electrocompaniet Ampliwire AW100. Sounds great on Quad ESL63, particularly with a good tube preamplifier.
 
microstrip said:
My first experience with a very good sounding solid state amplifier was with the original Electrocompaniet 25w amplifier designed by Mati Otala. I still keep an Electrocompaniet Ampliwire AW100. Sounds great on Quad ESL63, particularly with a good tube preamplifier.
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Yes they were good for the day! And the AW100 was the only amp of the day that could in my experience successfully drive the original big Apogees. All others gave up the ghost.
 
Weren't the Krells often mated with the Apogees in the 1980's?

I have heard a couple of those systems that were very good.
 
Gary, the big Apogees bore no resemblance to the other models in the line. While Apogees were never an easy load to drive eg. they created business for Krell and Classe, the big ones were a beast and even the Krells gave up the ghost. (The impedance dropped as low as 0.25 ohms and we didn't even talk about phase angles back then! :))
 
For everyone who is reading this thread, I'm pretty sure "bandor" is the same guy who was posting on WBF under a different name who has a patent on making cables using different gauge conductors. He wanted to tell everyone he had a patent, but he didn't want anyone to read it. Due to the conduct of the OP, the thread was closed down.
 
mep said:
For everyone who is reading this thread, I'm pretty sure "bandor" is the same guy who was posting on WBF under a different name who has a patent on making cables using different gauge conductors. He wanted to tell everyone he had a patent, but he didn't want anyone to read it. Due to the conduct of the OP, the thread was closed down.
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Thank you for sharing. We are watching.
 
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