Hundreds, Even Thousands Of Dollars For Speaker, Power, And Other Cables...Really?

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bluegrassphile

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I'm sure this has been discussed ad infinitum over many years, even decades. But I remember in the mid '70s when we used 16 gauge (often times much lighter) AC power cord for speaker wire. Power conditioners and power supplies hadn't even entered the picture yet. At least not to a great extent. Then we used standard speaker wire. Both AC wire and standard speaker wire were very cheap and they worked. How well they worked is where the discussion starts and will likely never end.

As some of you know, I'm a relative newb/returnee to high end home audio after a 40+ year hiatus. And I'm still having difficulty accepting this evolutionary concept of high end audio cables, power conditioners, power supplies, and their sky rocketing costs vs their true effectiveness.

How did we get here? Audio cable used to be very inexpensive. Didn't matter whether it was speaker or interconnect cable. It was cheap. Then it seemed, within a relatively short period of time, cable got expensive...in many cases VERY expensive. Just how expensive depends on your income, budget, and your willingness to believe manufacturer claims about the effectiveness of various cables, power conditioners, power supplies, etc.

Don't get me wrong...I do believe, to a certain extent, that the better the "quality" of the cable the better your audio system might sound. I think it all depends on the materials used, the build quality, and the design, just like any other component.

I still can't help but wonder, is there really a significant difference in the SQ of various audio cables, power conditioners, and power supplies? "Significant" being the operative word. My new system won't be operational until January. So I don't currently know how good my cables will sound. Or, if I will even appreciate the difference. I have AudioQuest Rocket 88 speaker cable and MacKenzie interconnects. About the only way I could tell the difference in quality between my choice of cables and the choices of others would be via a direct comparison using the same exact components in the same listening environment. Maybe the difference would be very noticeable, maybe not. I really don't have a clue.

It just seems to me the costs of various audio cables, power conditioners, and power supplies (what I would call "incidentals") are astronomical. When I purchased my first (and most recent) high end audio system cables weren't even a consideration. They were just a relatively insignificant necessity.

Today, such "incidentals" are big business. You can spend $2000+ quicker than you can blink your eyes, on speaker cables alone. Power conditioners and power supplies can also easily run into the thousands of dollars. Like many other things...things in high end home audio sure have changed.

When I returned to the high end audio hobby last February I'll have to admit I experienced sticker shock in a major way. Not only regarding the audio hardware and software, but the lowly audio cable as well. Hundreds, even thousands of dollars for cables alone?!! To quote a very wise man...Great googly moogly!!! I feel like the man in the time machine. Or, perhaps, Rip Van Winkle. Even Sleeping Beauty!! Well, maybe not.

OK, so I've now, for the most part, accepted the price tags on audio components. But I'm still very puzzled over the costs of various cables and incidentals. I'm sure after I first audition my new system in January I'll begin to appreciate the enhancement of my system via high quality incidentals. We'll see I guess.

Sorry for the long, rambling post. But it was kind of quiet around here anyway.
 
I hear you, honestly I do.

I thought my return to Audio was going to be around $5000 since I have a pair of Snell speakers from the early 90’s that I ended up having to re-cone.

That was then, today I have learned it all matters, but you still can make a difference following a budget but the steps of room, power, cables, isolation, speakers and components have to follow a logical path towards implementation to get the most out of system - you will get improvements by sensibly doing something, versus nothing.

It’s surprisingly eerie on how good these systems can get and wonder if the artists even realize this.




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If you want to see for yourself, buy a Shunyata Delta NR power cord. You’ll become a believer. There’s a robust resale market for these so you don’t have to worry about making a bad investment. You can read about the benefits all you want, but until you’ve experienced it in your own system there will always be some doubt. Mike is a Shunyata dealer.
 
This can spiral out of control quickly. My recommendation is to really focus on the listening position/speaker placement/room treatment relationship first and get that optimized. Once that is optimized, tweaks like cables and the like are easier to hear and have more impact. I wouldn't lose any sleep over these things as you are purchasing some great equipment and wires right out of the gate. The problem is, it does start to become an obsession at some point. There are times when I have taken a step back and laughed at myself!
 
several points i would make from my specific experience with analog signal cabling -- as always YMMV...

> cables do make a very significant difference in SQ

> the first order effect is the metal used in the conductor wire. generically, there are cables using silver, copper and tinned-copper wire. each has a different signature sound.

> the second order effect is wire gauge, AWG. lower AWG / thicker wire will sound different than higher AWG / thinner wire, all else equal

> everything else is incremental to that
​

again from my experience with my system, the greatest improvement / difference in SQ can be had for quite reasonable prices with cables having straightforward designs. there are many manufacturers offering this type cable.

choosing a cable is a lot like tube rolling in that the optimal choice is system and listener dependent.
_________________________

with respect to my specific system which is slightly to the warm side of neutral and very organic / musical, no small part of my being able to achieve this was the selection of cables with tinned-copper conductor wire. if this is a sound that you like as well, i would point you to the writings of jeff day on the subject...

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/duelund-coherent-audio-dca-series-cables-part-1/

also fwiw: i intentionally use speaker cables with old-school, bare-wire termination. simplicity wins with fewer links in the chain... and, less costly -- win/win
 
IMHO;

The higher resolution of one’s system ; the greater effect these high end cables have for better or worse (subjective )

When you have a high end system ; a cheap cable with tons of distortion from the 1970s will give you exactly that. Switch to a modern technology ; sound is better.

Less distortion = better sound

that’s what the high end is all about.

thats what you are paying for.

Likewise , a Ferrari 488 gtb owner isn’t going to be upset with the cost of Michelin pilot sport tires that they go out and buy cooper or a lesser brand.

Nothing against the latter but , the car will never reach its potential on lesser tires.

Likewise In the Audio world.

Sure , you use the stock power cord or even a Shunyata delta on a pair of Ch precision monoblock Amps.

But , almost certain that an omega Qr or dragon Hc will give you the resolution that those amps can provide.

Thats the price to pay to play at this high exotic level.
 
Cables (power, interconnect, speaker) are the foundation for a stereo. Also, power itself is part of that foundation. Each amp should have a dedicated 20 amp circuit, and the preamp and other gear should have another dedicated 20 amp circuit. Obviously, each circuit requires a decent power conditioner. The better the foundation then the better the stereo. Building a stereo on a cheap foundation will result in an inferior sounding system. No matter what gear is used.
 
You listened to a full Shunyata system at my store and loved it. They only time we didn’t use Shunyata was when we used the NAIM system since NAIM requires special “for NAIM” speaker cables.


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The OP should continue to use Existing Audioquest cables ; which are fine cables btw.

Until his pending gear is installed and up and running.

Then he should demo a full “loom “ speaker + interconnects of another brand to compare with his existing Audioquest.

However , I like many here believe power is higher would be more important and would take priority.

what is the Op using for his power cables ?
 
mdp632 said:
The OP should continue to use Existing Audioquest cables ; which are fine cables btw.

Until his pending gear is installed and up and running.

Then he should demo a full “loom “ speaker + interconnects of another brand to compare with his existing Audioquest.

However , I like many here believe power is higher would be more important and would take priority.

what is the Op using for his power cables ?
Click to expand...

Stock. There was no budget for after market power cords.


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Mike said:
Stock. There was no budget for after market power cords.


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Click to expand...

You don't even have to go nuts with PCs. In my system, I noticed a difference with $50 Pangea PCs. Then more with PS Audio AC3s at $125 and then again with Cullen at $125.

Now waiting for my Shunyata PC for the new Luxman. :popcorn:

Other than the gear itself, I think the best tweak I did was PCs as I already have a dedicated line which should be the first thing anyone serious does. It is amazing how much noise a Fridge, Florescent lights and a Microwave can put thru your sound. Before my dedicated line, the wall outlet I used was shared by the kitchen. You could hear the sond levels drop with noise and return every time the light was turned on and off.
 
Mike said:
Stock. There was no budget for after market power cords.


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Click to expand...

To that end , the Op should demo a Shunyata venom ps8 plus venom cords and a Niagara 1200 plus nrg series cords.

i say this because these products seem like a good starting point into high end audio power products.

What is the rest of the system ?
 
Mike, I don't have even the slightest doubt the cables and connects I purchased from you will do a superb job. I have great trust in you and your recommendations. My post is simply about how surprised I was at the prices of cables, interconnects, power supplies, and power conditioners, upon my return to high end home audio. That's all. Nothing more.

I shouldn't be that surprised. As I've mentioned before, the last time I owned a high end audio system was in the mid '70s. You could reasonably expect a lot of changes in the high end home audio industry since then. Heck, cables and interconnects is now an industry unto itself. Used to be when you bought a stereo system you got these spindly, thin, little, speaker cables and interconnects and didn't even give it a thought. Very cheaply made. Then they started increasing in size (gauge) and price and the rest is history.

You were right in saying I could have purchased higher quality cables but was limited by my budget. That's likely one of the first upgrades I'll do. But until then what you recommended I'm sure will be more than adequate. I'm so pumped about my system. Coming up on four more weeks.
 
I am in total agreement. If I remember correctly, there is a term in economics , the law of diminishing marginal utility. Is a $2500 power cable worth 25X as much as a $100 cable? Can you really get $2400 worth of value for the extra $$$? I recently posted something about a Purist Audio Design $15,000 power cable. $750 of Furutech parts, $14,250 for a 1.5 meters of cable?You MUST be kidding. I use custom made Furutech cables. The NCF cables and connectors. The same as the $15,000 cable. I'm extremely pleased. I've owned quite a few different combinations. This is the sweet spot for me. I think the break in process is also 75% fluff. I just think it takes 200-300 hours to get accustomed to the new sound.
 
Hi Tom,
The way I look at cables and power cords is it really depends on your satisfaction level with your system. You hook up all you have purchased in January and if you’re absolutely happy with the sound, you need not spend an additional dime on cables. I find the satisfaction factor is really the motivation in all of this. If you aren’t though, that’s when you have to decide “how much” is enough for you, and only you and your ears can answer that question for you.

Many years ago I too started off with AQ Rocket88 speaker cables on an Integra receiver, a set of paradigm speakers and a few stock PC’s. After initial honeymoon period has passed, the sound became unsatisfying and I went on a 4-5 years worth of upgrade path. Long story short, I now have full loom of AQ Hurricane PC’s and MIT EVO One SC and IC’s. All my components are powered by Denali 6000T + AQ Niagara 1000. Do I think there are better cables that could make my system better? Absolutely. Knowing what I like, AQ Dragon, MIT 2C3D and Shunyata Triton v3/ Typhon QR would no doubt bring my system to another level. But do I think I need to spend that additional money? I really don’t because I’m absolutely satisfied with my current system (same for resisting to upgrade Magico S3 to S3 mk2). By the way, I haven’t made a change in 9 months and that’s saying something.

Do I think you’d be absolutely happy with your system come January? I hope you’re that lucky, but probably not. If that happens, my suggestion is to start off with a power conditioner like a Denali v1 because there’s a chance that might be the only thing you need. Denali v2 is just recently released, so you could get a nice discount on v1.

You’re probably thinking you’re almost home, but January is only the start of your journey. Have fun and enjoy the ride.
 
I'll be the first to agree that cables make a difference, especially power cables but c'mon thousands of dollars for a 5 foot cable! Between the cost of materials, labor and R&D prices are way, way, way overblown. That being said there will still be enough people purchasing them. I myself have spent a good amount of money on cables to make a significant improvement in my system, but I do keep it within reason.

Even within the same manufactures line of cables there will be several different levels that are offered and granted the top of the line cable will sound better then the entry level cable but again do the parts and labor cost many, many thousands of dollars more? I think not.

Just like the health care industry Hi-End Audio has gone off the charts with prices.
 
I’ve always been a power cord denier. Have a couple Wireworld PCs I got with my mono blocks. I never had them hooked up with any stock cord, so I guess I didn’t have a chance to notice a change.

On a whim I picked up a Level 2 PC from anti cable. Plugged it into my pre/processor, and I can hear a difference. Not quite sure why, but it’s noticeable.


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kzhtoo said:
Hi Tom,
The way I look at cables and power cords is it really depends on your satisfaction level with your system. You hook up all you have purchased in January and if you’re absolutely happy with the sound, you need not spend an additional dime on cables. I find the satisfaction factor is really the motivation in all of this. If you aren’t though, that’s when you have to decide “how much” is enough for you, and only you and your ears can answer that question for you.

Many years ago I too started off with AQ Rocket88 speaker cables on an Integra receiver, a set of paradigm speakers and a few stock PC’s. After initial honeymoon period has passed, the sound became unsatisfying and I went on a 4-5 years worth of upgrade path. Long story short, I now have full loom of AQ Hurricane PC’s and MIT EVO One SC and IC’s. All my components are powered by Denali 6000T + AQ Niagara 1000. Do I think there are better cables that could make my system better? Absolutely. Knowing what I like, AQ Dragon, MIT 2C3D and Shunyata Triton v3/ Typhon QR would no doubt bring my system to another level. But do I think I need to spend that additional money? I really don’t because I’m absolutely satisfied with my current system (same for resisting to upgrade Magico S3 to S3 mk2). By the way, I haven’t made a change in 9 months and that’s saying something.

Do I think you’d be absolutely happy with your system come January? I hope you’re that lucky, but probably not. If that happens, my suggestion is to start off with a power conditioner like a Denali v1 because there’s a chance that might be the only thing you need. Denali v2 is just recently released, so you could get a nice discount on v1.

You’re probably thinking you’re almost home, but January is only the start of your journey. Have fun and enjoy the ride.
Click to expand...

+1 on the MIT Evo recommendation. I also moved up from an even higher end AQ Oak +Earth but, preferred the MIT in my system over the AQ.

New AQ Speaker cables designed by Garth Powell are supposed to be very nice but, i made the change prior to MIT and have no further reason to change.

In the system synergy +plus subjective preference play a big part.
 
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