bluegrassphile
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- #1
Shopping for a HP amp that will be symbiotic/compatible with Focal Stellias. Many of you know that Stellias are closed HPs. Interested in suggestions. Thank you.
HP Amp For Focal Stellias
- Thread starter bluegrassphile
- Start date
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Did you have a budget in mind? Solid state or tubes? Just single ended or balanced?
I know, too many questions... I have been really getting into headphones lately and have tried several amps and headphones over the last couple years. The Stellias are supposed to be excellent.
I know, too many questions... I have been really getting into headphones lately and have tried several amps and headphones over the last couple years. The Stellias are supposed to be excellent.
bluegrassphile
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- #3
Hey, Randy. Good to hear from you. Yeah, I've decided on closed HPs so as to not disturb my wife while I'm listening, and vice versa. Looking seriously at the Focal Stellias. Mike is recommending the new Naim Uniti Atom headphone addition for an amp. I've also considered the Pass HPA-1 and Simaudio 430 among others. Budget around $7000 (total for HP and amp). Maybe a little more depending on the quality of the components. I'm open to any other recommendations.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I am not familiar with the Naim, but I know they have a good name. It looks like a good unit, but my only real issue with it is that it tries to do everything... DAC, streamer, etc., etc. All cool if that is what you need... however you have that amazing MSB already :einstein:... it depends on your use. I integrate my headphones into my system and it sounded to me like you were going to be doing the same... so a dedicated headphone amp makes a ton of sense in my view.
I assume you are leaning towards SS (Pass, SimAudio). I hear Pass is very good and I know that the SimAudio can be seriously considered one of the best. I thought it was amazing, but for me it was too large (a full size component) and more than I needed. A bit overwhelming. The Bryston is also excellent! Also SPL is very good. If you are talking single ended only and not looking for tons of features, just a simple headphone amp the SPL Phonitor SE is really good for a bit less money. Another very highly rated and less money unit is the HeadAmp GS-X Mini (maker of the Blue Hawaiian, many rate as the best there is, but it is electrostatic only) ... supposed to be seriously good for the money. Another very highly rated solid state is Eleven Audio. This is the top rated and sold by Abyss! Definitely a bit more $$$, but supposed to be good... not really my cup of tea though....
On the tube end of things I owned the Dennis Had Dragon, which is very nice, but single ended only, again. The Woo Audio I recently purchased is by far my absolute favorite. It is a 100% tube design and fully balanced class A. It is also renowned for its ability to do tube rolling. On Head-Fi there is a thread dedicated just to Woo and another dedicated just to the WA22 amplifier (the current model is called the 2nd Gen)! I had a McIntosh in the past which was pretty good also!
I do prefer American and German amps (ok, most European)... There are others of course.... with this in mind...
Pass - SS - US
Bryston - SS - Canadian
SimAudio - SS - Canadian
SPL - SS - German
Dennis Had - Tube - hand made, US
Woo - Tube - hand made, US
Naim - SS - British
McIntosh - both Tube and SS - US
HeadAmp - SS - US
Eleven Audio - SS - US
All of these are great and your budget should allow you to get most any of these....
I have tried others, but these are my favorites... if you have any thoughts of tubes... WOO AUDIO... headphone amp specialists and absolutely fantastic!
I assume you are leaning towards SS (Pass, SimAudio). I hear Pass is very good and I know that the SimAudio can be seriously considered one of the best. I thought it was amazing, but for me it was too large (a full size component) and more than I needed. A bit overwhelming. The Bryston is also excellent! Also SPL is very good. If you are talking single ended only and not looking for tons of features, just a simple headphone amp the SPL Phonitor SE is really good for a bit less money. Another very highly rated and less money unit is the HeadAmp GS-X Mini (maker of the Blue Hawaiian, many rate as the best there is, but it is electrostatic only) ... supposed to be seriously good for the money. Another very highly rated solid state is Eleven Audio. This is the top rated and sold by Abyss! Definitely a bit more $$$, but supposed to be good... not really my cup of tea though....
On the tube end of things I owned the Dennis Had Dragon, which is very nice, but single ended only, again. The Woo Audio I recently purchased is by far my absolute favorite. It is a 100% tube design and fully balanced class A. It is also renowned for its ability to do tube rolling. On Head-Fi there is a thread dedicated just to Woo and another dedicated just to the WA22 amplifier (the current model is called the 2nd Gen)! I had a McIntosh in the past which was pretty good also!
I do prefer American and German amps (ok, most European)... There are others of course.... with this in mind...
Pass - SS - US
Bryston - SS - Canadian
SimAudio - SS - Canadian
SPL - SS - German
Dennis Had - Tube - hand made, US
Woo - Tube - hand made, US
Naim - SS - British
McIntosh - both Tube and SS - US
HeadAmp - SS - US
Eleven Audio - SS - US
All of these are great and your budget should allow you to get most any of these....
I have tried others, but these are my favorites... if you have any thoughts of tubes... WOO AUDIO... headphone amp specialists and absolutely fantastic!
The MSB DAC has only one set of outputs, so if he goes amp only, he’s constantly unplugging and plugging wires.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
Couldn't he use the outputs off his Pass? It has both SE and XLR outputs. I prefer to go off my main system then I get my finest music capability, my best DAC, can play records or tuner if I like. A ton more flexibility. He would be putting his money into a better amp in my view. The bottom line is whatever works best for him. We are talking nice items with pretty much all of the above.
bluegrassphile
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- Thread Author
- #7
Randy, I'm still a relative novice at this stuff. So, with something like the Woo or the Eleven Audio, do I just plug it into the inputs on the Pass 250 INT and I'm good to go? Does the HP amp need it's own DAC and streamer or will the MSB and Roon Nucleus do for everything? I paid a ton of cash for the MSB Discrete and it's a cream of the crop unit. I like to use it.
Right now I'm also running a Roon Nucleus. Would I connect the Naim Uniti Atom Headphone Edition amp the same way?
I'm a little confused on what hooks to what. It would be simple if everything plugged into the 250 INT inputs. But would that get me the signal path that I need? The amps you mentioned above are all "amp only" units...is that correct? Do I still use the MSB on any of those units? I prefer not having to unplug/plug a HP amp in every time I want to use the HPs.
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still learning.
Right now I'm also running a Roon Nucleus. Would I connect the Naim Uniti Atom Headphone Edition amp the same way?
I'm a little confused on what hooks to what. It would be simple if everything plugged into the 250 INT inputs. But would that get me the signal path that I need? The amps you mentioned above are all "amp only" units...is that correct? Do I still use the MSB on any of those units? I prefer not having to unplug/plug a HP amp in every time I want to use the HPs.
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm still learning.
And what, disconnect his speakers? So, no, with an integrated he would be turning up the volume on his Pass and playing his speakers and headphones at the same time.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
Hey Bluegrass,
I assume you can use your Pass and connect the headphone amplifier directly to its outputs just like any other amp. I looked at the Pass manual. Besides being woefully inadequate (most manuals are any more), I did find that the outputs are active on the back and could therefore be used to power amplifiers (speakers or headphone amplifiers), and/or subwoofers or powered speakers. I could not determine if the internal amplifier/speaker outputs could be turned off. Common sense and industry norms would indicate that you can since they say these can be used to power other systems. "The Preamp Outputs can be used to drive a second system, a sub-woofer or other amplifiers for bi-amping."
If used in this manner you can use and enjoy any component as you would currently with your speakers. Therefore listening to your MSB from the Nucleus should work as normal. My only real concern is if you can use it without the speakers being on, since they state you can drive a second system to me indicates that you can turn off the speaker outputs, but this I do not know since as I stated, the manual does not really cover the amplifiers use well.
In my system I run one of the outputs to the headphone amp and can listen to any source be it my digital through the T+A, either turntable through the phono stage, or FM from the tuner. If I want to use my speakers I turn on the MBL amplifier and subwoofers. If I am listening to headphones I turn on the Woo. Fairly straight forward.
I assume you can use your Pass and connect the headphone amplifier directly to its outputs just like any other amp. I looked at the Pass manual. Besides being woefully inadequate (most manuals are any more), I did find that the outputs are active on the back and could therefore be used to power amplifiers (speakers or headphone amplifiers), and/or subwoofers or powered speakers. I could not determine if the internal amplifier/speaker outputs could be turned off. Common sense and industry norms would indicate that you can since they say these can be used to power other systems. "The Preamp Outputs can be used to drive a second system, a sub-woofer or other amplifiers for bi-amping."
If used in this manner you can use and enjoy any component as you would currently with your speakers. Therefore listening to your MSB from the Nucleus should work as normal. My only real concern is if you can use it without the speakers being on, since they state you can drive a second system to me indicates that you can turn off the speaker outputs, but this I do not know since as I stated, the manual does not really cover the amplifiers use well.
In my system I run one of the outputs to the headphone amp and can listen to any source be it my digital through the T+A, either turntable through the phono stage, or FM from the tuner. If I want to use my speakers I turn on the MBL amplifier and subwoofers. If I am listening to headphones I turn on the Woo. Fairly straight forward.
The outputs need gain from the preamp. So he will be turning up the volume on his 250 and thus playing his speakers at the same time.
In his scenario, the Uniti Atom headphone edition is a better option. He’s already running roon ans the Atom can use Roon.
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In his scenario, the Uniti Atom headphone edition is a better option. He’s already running roon ans the Atom can use Roon.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
That is kind of shocking honestly. Why would the Pass give two outputs but not allow you to select between what you are listening to, the built in speakers or the external, "second system" as they refer to it? So to use headphones you have to use completely separate systems, DAC, music source such as the Nucleus, turntables, etc. I knew there has always been a very good reason that I stick with separates
.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
What would be the source to the Naim? I assume his Nucleus cannot connect to both the MSB and the Naim... So he would basically be using the Naim to stream, Tidal, etc.? The DAC would be the one built into the Naim, so his headphones would be using a different DAC and source then his speakers?
The NAIM is the source. Has everything built in he needs. We have one in the store and it’s fabulous. Drives all the difficult headphones easily.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
I know Naim is good gear, no doubt. It is the source... from Streaming, right. Certainly not music he has stored on his Nucleus and not other sources if he ever adds, such as a turntable
... It is too bad that he has to use another DAC and not his fabulous MSB...
I am still curious by what Pass means by "second system"... if they mean another system in another room (what would be thought of as a "second system") then one would assume that the volume could be independently controlled or one could be played versus the other. I mean if you have music going on the "second system" you may not necessarily want it going on the first system, or at the same volume... but their manuals are not clear at all on this point.
Since Pass literally mention "a second system" as the first thing in their description of the outputs one can only assume they mean another system such as another room, a headphone system, etc.
I know Naim is good gear, no doubt. It is the source... from Streaming, right. Certainly not music he has stored on his Nucleus and not other sources if he ever adds, such as a turntable
It is too bad that he has to use another DAC and not his fabulous MSB...
He can stream from ripped music no problem and it has RCA inputs for a turntable from a Phonostage.
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I know Naim is good gear, no doubt. It is the source... from Streaming, right. Certainly not music he has stored on his Nucleus and not other sources if he ever adds, such as a turntable
It is too bad that he has to use another DAC and not his fabulous MSB...
I am still curious by what Pass means by "second system"... if they mean another system in another room (what would be thought of by "second system") then one would assume that the volume could be independently controlled or one could be played versus the other. I mean if you have music going on the "second system" you may not necessarily want it going on the first system, or at the same volume... but their manuals are not clear at all on this point.
The volume is not fixed, it’s variable. He would need a fixed output for what you’re suggesting. All pass outputs are variable.
A stand-alone headphone system is what will work best.
But then again, that’s what his dealer already told him. [emoji6]
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
You certainly do not need a fixed output to feed a headphone amp. I actually prefer a variable output. I can then use the volume control from the remote to control the volume through headphones. I have used it in this way through the T+A DAC and from several pre-amps, and even from the Oppo spinner. It works fantastic and has worked in this manner through at least 10-15 different headphone amplifier that I have tried. A headphone amplifier works exactly the same as speaker power amplifiers except they are designed to power headphones instead of speakers. There are "volume" controls, sure, just like some amplifiers have gain controls and some even entitle them as volume controls and even advertise that they can control the volume straight from your source.
I believe my headphone setup would be considered world class and I 100% believe having a headphone setup separate from main system, or stand-alone is not advantageous. It actually is a disadvantage because you then require secondary sources, and other, probably lower grade DACs, as an example.
You need a fixed output from the preamp or integrated to feed an external headphone amp. His is an integrated so using the volume on the 250 will send music to the speakers too.
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Randy Myers
Well-known member
I understand that sadly the Pass does not allow for the use of the outputs to be used separately from the internal amplifier. So unfortunately in Bluegrass's case it may not be appropriate.
However fixed outputs from a preamp, etc., is definitely not needed or required for use with an external headphone amplifier. A variable output works absolutely fine, and in many ways is preferred. It is 100% the way I have used it with virtually every headphone amplifier I have owned including my current Woo Audio WA22 2nd Gen amplifier.
However fixed outputs from a preamp, etc., is definitely not needed or required for use with an external headphone amplifier. A variable output works absolutely fine, and in many ways is preferred. It is 100% the way I have used it with virtually every headphone amplifier I have owned including my current Woo Audio WA22 2nd Gen amplifier.
Not needed, but now you have two VC’s, which add noise. Best to eliminate one for Sonics.