How thrifty is thrifty?
- Thread starter TONEGUY
- Start date
Yeah NAD had always offered good bang for the buck. My fist decent system back in 1986 when I was a student included a compact NAD lifestyle system with separate components & pair of Infinity Reference 3's. The Ref 3's were large 3-way bookshelfs which I recall bent the shelf they were sitting on! I loved that system, and later moved up the Infinity line to Reference 60's and Ren 90's.
a.wayne
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New: Maggie 1.7 ,Cambridge Azur 851A integrated amplifier, rega rp1/ MC cartridge ,Cambridge Audio Azur 851D D/A processor, wire and cabling sorted about 5500.00 total system
MusicDirector
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What about records? I'm in the Fremer camp, "make sure you have enough left for records".
TONEGUY
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- Thread Author
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I guess I would think you already had some records. Honestly if I were starting over, I'd really just get a good DAC and call it a day. I love vinyl, but if I had to do the inexpensive turntable thing and try to bargain shop records, I wouldn't bother. The used market has really become a jungle, even crappy copies of vintage records (i.e. classic rock from the 60s - 80s) is way too expensive. I'd just get a Tidal subscription and go bargain shopping for CD's now that they are really cheap.
CPP
Active member
I think any budget is based on the individual while $3,000 is good for one person, $5,000 or even higher might be appropriate for another. In the scheme of things when you look at the overall majority of equipment discussed on this site, heck some speakers cost more than some peoples transportation or DACS costing $10k plus, $5,000 seems like a good target number for thrifty. . After a choice of : speakers, amps, pre-amps dacs, dac/pre combo, cables, power stuff, acoustic treatments, rack, monitor stands if a monitor is used, possible turntable, phono stage, stylus (they don't last forever) even a CD player and the cost of the music, download cost, LP purchases, NAS, Media player cost (JRiver, Roon etc.. . I tell ya folks this stuff adds up.
BayStBroker
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Yes, $5000. A bit of a stretch for the household with average annual income. But not unattainable (the kids can still buy new clothes for school in September).
CPP
Active member
Kids, the BIG ticket item. I'm just glad my 2 daughters are out of college and on their own. A little off topic here but I read, that for a normal middle income family it cost close to $300,000 to raise a child to age 18 NOT counting college.
It all boils down to a mixture of personal economy and priority.
The cool thing is that I've had the opportunity to work alongside a wide group of people. Thus, I've been able to observe what real-world folks consider affordable - at least when it comes to Hi-Fi stuffs.
To begin, I'd like to focus on a group of people that I like to call real-world shoppers. These people usually work middle-income jobs, and while they have enough money to enjoy some of the finer things in life, a good bulk of their cash goes towards things like bills, college funds, retirement plans, and all of that other boring yet necessary stuff. While many of these people would love nothing more than to bring home a cost-no-object system, their lifestyle prevents them from taking those kinda thoughts too seriously. When the real-world shopper decides to buy a stereo rig, usually they are looking to spend around $500 for the whole sha-bang. That figure can easily double to the $1000 marker *if* they are given a jaw-dropping demo, but $1000 is usually as far as it goes.
Next we have a group of real-world shoppers who occupy the next income tier. By and large, these people are less burdened by day-to-day life expenses and have a little more cash to spend on cool toys. From what I've seen, this crowd is where the average audiophile resides. Most of the people at this level are willing to spend $1500 to $5000 on a good stereo system. For these people, the definition of thrifty is simply resisting the urge to accrue debt by bringing home the kinda drool-worthy toys that occupy the next price bracket.
This brings me to the last tier, one that I will lovingly refer to as the Audio Shark playground. The folks that swim in these waters tend to be financially well off - to the point to where $5,000 may not even be enough to cover the costs of just ONE of the exotic power cords found throughout their sports-car priced stereo system. Being thrifty? What's that? Is that when people buy Polk Audio?
Seriously though, at the end of the day, it's all relative. To me, it all boils down to this simple question: "Could a high-school kid afford to buy this system?". If I had to put a monetary value on what 'thrifty' means to me, I'd say the rig should cost around $400 and absolutely no more than $500. That's my take on the subject.
The cool thing is that I've had the opportunity to work alongside a wide group of people. Thus, I've been able to observe what real-world folks consider affordable - at least when it comes to Hi-Fi stuffs.
To begin, I'd like to focus on a group of people that I like to call real-world shoppers. These people usually work middle-income jobs, and while they have enough money to enjoy some of the finer things in life, a good bulk of their cash goes towards things like bills, college funds, retirement plans, and all of that other boring yet necessary stuff. While many of these people would love nothing more than to bring home a cost-no-object system, their lifestyle prevents them from taking those kinda thoughts too seriously. When the real-world shopper decides to buy a stereo rig, usually they are looking to spend around $500 for the whole sha-bang. That figure can easily double to the $1000 marker *if* they are given a jaw-dropping demo, but $1000 is usually as far as it goes.
Next we have a group of real-world shoppers who occupy the next income tier. By and large, these people are less burdened by day-to-day life expenses and have a little more cash to spend on cool toys. From what I've seen, this crowd is where the average audiophile resides. Most of the people at this level are willing to spend $1500 to $5000 on a good stereo system. For these people, the definition of thrifty is simply resisting the urge to accrue debt by bringing home the kinda drool-worthy toys that occupy the next price bracket.
This brings me to the last tier, one that I will lovingly refer to as the Audio Shark playground. The folks that swim in these waters tend to be financially well off - to the point to where $5,000 may not even be enough to cover the costs of just ONE of the exotic power cords found throughout their sports-car priced stereo system. Being thrifty? What's that? Is that when people buy Polk Audio?
Seriously though, at the end of the day, it's all relative. To me, it all boils down to this simple question: "Could a high-school kid afford to buy this system?". If I had to put a monetary value on what 'thrifty' means to me, I'd say the rig should cost around $400 and absolutely no more than $500. That's my take on the subject.
MusicDirector
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Granted, the used record market can be a jungle depending. Perhaps you may be looking in the wrong places? Do you at least have a record fair or swapmeet or what have you that comes around once a year or more? If so, I recommend looking there. If your a risk taker you could also try Amazon, I've seen reasonable used prices there (the only unknown is condition, you have to trust what you read).
I know in my area I have my fair share of those who think they are sitting on hundreds of troy ounces of gold when the reality is opposite. I know the type, they want $10 to $15 for a record that is warped, cracked and scratched beyond recognition and forget it for anything in fair condition. I don't give those guys the time of day. Also, the yard sales and garage sales all over my local are dried up completely. I am fortunate enough to have a record swapmeet that comes around once a month. Plenty of gougers there, but also reasonable dealers who also have bargain boxes ($1, $2, $3) to look through. I've pulled some little gems out of there several times. I've also gotten to know a few of the good guy dealers.
jdandy
New member
My vintage system was assembled for less than $3500.00. I purchased the Denon DVD-2800, JBL 4312A's, Maple rack, Wireworld cables and the Godar antenna new. Had those items been purchased pre-owned this system would have been even less expensive. This modest system sounds very good.
McIntosh MA230 (solid state pre/tube power amp) - $1000.00
McIntosh MR74 AM/FM tuner - $600.00
Denon DVD-2800 (CD + HDCD) - $650.00
JBL 4312A speakers - $800.00
Maple rack (Microwave cart from Amazon) $65.00
Wireworld Solstice speaker cables and interconnects - 300.00
Godar FM antenna - $50.00
McIntosh MA230 (solid state pre/tube power amp) - $1000.00
McIntosh MR74 AM/FM tuner - $600.00
Denon DVD-2800 (CD + HDCD) - $650.00
JBL 4312A speakers - $800.00
Maple rack (Microwave cart from Amazon) $65.00
Wireworld Solstice speaker cables and interconnects - 300.00
Godar FM antenna - $50.00
MusicDirector
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Nice Dan!
Vintage systems can be very nice as well in my opinion. I think I’m a bit biased though as well due to sentimental reasons, but I don’t know that is a factor.
My second system is all vintage, except the rack.
Pioneer PL-510 TT = $25 (pure luck on this grab)
Yamaha CR-2020 = $180
Nakamichi RX-202 = $80
DCM TF-600 speakers = $150
VTI rack = $300
TOTAL = $710
In my opinion however, I would not recommend going the vintage route for someone seeking a more thrifty audio system these days (unless they are very handy in electronic repair and restoration or already have a crackerjack tech). Or at least, not as vintage as my stuff is. (I'm lucky enough to have a very good tech at present...which reminds me I need to get that Sansui in for a shot at 20 more years of service or more).
Of course these days, at least in my part of the state, the vintage stuff is very hard to find now and if you do find some it comes at a premium and that’s for stuff that needs work. (I acquired mine about 4 or 5 years ago just before the market dried up…I got lucky in my opinion). It would actually be the same or less expensive to club together a system from more realistic/reasonably priced items from the high-end makes. Plus one would not have to worry about restoration, things going wrong and all that and in most cases it would sound better.
Vintage systems can be very nice as well in my opinion. I think I’m a bit biased though as well due to sentimental reasons, but I don’t know that is a factor.
My second system is all vintage, except the rack.
Pioneer PL-510 TT = $25 (pure luck on this grab)
Yamaha CR-2020 = $180
Nakamichi RX-202 = $80
DCM TF-600 speakers = $150
VTI rack = $300
TOTAL = $710
In my opinion however, I would not recommend going the vintage route for someone seeking a more thrifty audio system these days (unless they are very handy in electronic repair and restoration or already have a crackerjack tech). Or at least, not as vintage as my stuff is. (I'm lucky enough to have a very good tech at present...which reminds me I need to get that Sansui in for a shot at 20 more years of service or more).
Of course these days, at least in my part of the state, the vintage stuff is very hard to find now and if you do find some it comes at a premium and that’s for stuff that needs work. (I acquired mine about 4 or 5 years ago just before the market dried up…I got lucky in my opinion). It would actually be the same or less expensive to club together a system from more realistic/reasonably priced items from the high-end makes. Plus one would not have to worry about restoration, things going wrong and all that and in most cases it would sound better.
jdandy
New member
Eric.......I hear you when it comes to vintage gear and the possibility of needed repairs. I received my McIntosh MA230 from member GaryProtein. He was generous enough to give me the integrated amp that had been his fathers. Gary had it stored in his basement for over 30 years. The $1000.00 price reflects my cost for new McIntosh shipping boxes, shipping costs to get the boxes to Gary, shipping costs to get the amp to Florida, shipping costs to get the amp to Terry DeWick in Tennessee for restoration, return shipping, walnut cabinet, and new tubes. Had the amplifier not needed restoring I could have saved about half of that. Terry breathed new life into this wonderful MA230 integrated amplifier. I had one back in the mid 1970's that I loved but foolishly let go. I am so pleased Gary heard that I missed my original MA230 and offered me his father's amp. I know his dad would be pleased to hear it still singing. I will be keeping this one.
MusicDirector
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Oh, very nice! You still did well considering what a new McIntosh with the same or similar specs goes for these days.
I got lucky in that the only thing that needed work was the Yamaha and that was just service bulletin stuff, cost me all of $46. My tech, being the wiz that he is, decided to boost it's already 100wpc to 120 during the job without compromising anything resulting in a bomb-proof power board as well. Now I don't dare turn the volume knob past 25%, no need to.
I'm taking my Sansui in for overhaul and internal restore even though everything works fine except for one light out,but he is also doing the work for a very nice price, so why not buy 20 more potentially problem-free years or more, I figure. Stuff back then was built like a brick chicken house. Weighs about as much too.
~Eric
I got lucky in that the only thing that needed work was the Yamaha and that was just service bulletin stuff, cost me all of $46. My tech, being the wiz that he is, decided to boost it's already 100wpc to 120 during the job without compromising anything resulting in a bomb-proof power board as well. Now I don't dare turn the volume knob past 25%, no need to.
I'm taking my Sansui in for overhaul and internal restore even though everything works fine except for one light out,but he is also doing the work for a very nice price, so why not buy 20 more potentially problem-free years or more, I figure. Stuff back then was built like a brick chicken house. Weighs about as much too.
~Eric
I think it looks like prices for systems (not just good earbuds for your smart phone) may be on the order of the prices of cars in the US. You can get a very good used car for around $5000 (used Camry or Honda), while $15-20K gets you a very decent new car. Prices go up from there.
The only thing seems to be that the range of prices is broader for hifi than cars. There are no new cars below about $15K, while there are plenty of very nice hifi systems well below that. And on the upper end - lots of hifi equipment priced in the six figures, and well into the mid six figures for a complete system - while there are only a handful of cars in the $200K and above price range. Speaker cable and interconnects seem to be craziest. My Tesla costs the same as a one or two pairs of the highest priced interconnects.
Larry
The only thing seems to be that the range of prices is broader for hifi than cars. There are no new cars below about $15K, while there are plenty of very nice hifi systems well below that. And on the upper end - lots of hifi equipment priced in the six figures, and well into the mid six figures for a complete system - while there are only a handful of cars in the $200K and above price range. Speaker cable and interconnects seem to be craziest. My Tesla costs the same as a one or two pairs of the highest priced interconnects.
Larry