How Much Power Do We Need?

mep

mep

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a.wayne said:
350 watts is about right for most speakers especially the MBL so i dont see this as an issue. I know some audiophiles not sensitive to clipping like running no more than 75 watts on their speakers and may find 350 outrageous ..

Regards
Click to expand...

So this was a thinly veiled swipe at me, my Nola KO speakers, and my Ref 75 amp. Someone who has never heard my system let alone being in my room thinks he is judge and jury of how much power my Nola KO speakers need in order to not be constantly clipping. I have reminded this person countless times that my speakers were designed using the Ref 75 as the reference amplifier. Apparently, he knows far more than the Carl M. who designed and voiced the Nola KOs using the Ref 75. The good news is that I do post what gear makes up my system along with pictures of my room so people like A.Wayne can take pot shots at my system and room. It's interesting that the major critic of my system won't dare post what gear he owns or pictures of his room. After numerous repeated attempts to get him to tell us what gear he actually owns, he won't disclose it. The closest thing was a crazy statement that basically said "I got me some of this and I got me some of that." You always have to wonder about people who love to crap on other people's systems and yet refuse to disclose what gear makes up their system. This is what I find outrageous. If you choose to buy or build highly inefficient speakers that require 350 watts of power, more power to you. Literally, because you will need it.

The bottom line is that unless you are sitting in a room with a system that you think is under-powered and you hear constant clipping and the owner is sitting next to you and seems to be oblivious to the clipping, you need to keep your mouth shut instead of saying that someone is not sensitive to clipping when you have no factual evidence to back up your big mouth.
 
The other thing to keep in mind is that doubling power only results in 3db more volume. And all watts are not created equal.


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How much power do I need?

As much as I can afford:D

Seriously, I think that for a lot of speakers it is not only how many watts but how much current.
My Magnepans like wattage but an amp with out much current will not last long and sound will also suffer. An amp needs to be able to deliver the goods immediately without clipping when called upon.

All amps are not created equal. My Pass amp has less peak current than my Parasound A21. It's slew rate is markedly slower and the dampening factors is 150 vs 10000 for the A21. The Pass sounds more rounded and slower with less tight bass but it is more dynamic, musical, has a wider and deeper sound stage with more air and transparency. The Pass also doubles down at 4 ohms and the A21 almost does.

Of course most of the guys on this forum have amps that cost 2-5x's what my Pass costs.
 
Mike said:
The other thing to keep in mind is that doubling power only results in 3db more volume. And all watts are not created equal.


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Click to expand...

That's a fact that is lost on many people. It's also why I think we made a wrong turn with speaker design once SS amps hit the market. We used to have large speakers with sensitivities of over 100 dB 1w/1m driven by low power tube amps. Of course women hated the large speakers in their living rooms back in the 1950s and 1960s, but once SS amps came along with high power, so did sealed speakers that were smaller, but sucked up huge amounts of power. It made the wives happy, but our sound quality suffered as a result.
 
Mechnutt said:
How much power do I need?

As much as I can afford:D
Click to expand...

Given your choice of speakers, I understand why you want as much power as you can afford. The lower the sensitivity, the more power you need. Your 1.7s have a sensitivity of 86 dB. This breaks down as follows:

1w = 86dB
2w = 89dB
4w = 92dB
8w = 95dB
16w = 98dB
32w = 101dB
64w = 104dB
128w = 107dB
256w = 110dB
512w = 113dB
 
mep said:
Given your choice of speakers, I understand why you want as much power as you can afford. The lower the sensitivity, the more power you need. Your 1.7s have a sensitivity of 86 dB. This breaks down as follows:

1w = 86dB
2w = 89dB
4w = 92dB
8w = 95dB
16w = 98dB
32w = 101dB
64w = 104dB
128w = 107dB
256w = 110dB
512w = 113dB
Click to expand...


Blind leading the blind i see , So 32 watts is all thats necessary to drive a pr of maggies to 100db ..

:rolleyes:


Yeah if you wear them like headphones .. :roflmao:
 
mep said:
So this was a thinly veiled swipe at me, my Nola KO speakers, and my Ref 75 amp. Someone who has never heard my system let alone being in my room thinks he is judge and jury of how much power my Nola KO speakers need in order to not be constantly clipping. I have reminded this person countless times that my speakers were designed using the Ref 75 as the reference amplifier. Apparently, he knows far more than the Carl M. who designed and voiced the Nola KOs using the Ref 75. The good news is that I do post what gear makes up my system along with pictures of my room so people like A.Wayne can take pot shots at my system and room. It's interesting that the major critic of my system won't dare post what gear he owns or pictures of his room. After numerous repeated attempts to get him to tell us what gear he actually owns, he won't disclose it. The closest thing was a crazy statement that basically said "I got me some of this and I got me some of that." You always have to wonder about people who love to crap on other people's systems and yet refuse to disclose what gear makes up their system. This is what I find outrageous. If you choose to buy or build highly inefficient speakers that require 350 watts of power, more power to you. Literally, because you will need it.

The bottom line is that unless you are sitting in a room with a system that you think is under-powered and you hear constant clipping and the owner is sitting next to you and seems to be oblivious to the clipping, you need to keep your mouth shut instead of saying that someone is not sensitive to clipping when you have no factual evidence to back up your big mouth.
Click to expand...

Jump ...! [emoji4]

Deleted by admin. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
 
Mike said:
The other thing to keep in mind is that doubling power only results in 3db more volume. And all watts are not created equal.


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Click to expand...

Yep and that 350 watts get used up pretty fast on high DR music ...
 
mep said:
So this was a thinly veiled swipe at me, my Nola KO speakers, and my Ref 75 amp. Someone who has never heard my system let alone being in my room thinks he is judge and jury of how much power my Nola KO speakers need in order to not be constantly clipping.
Click to expand...
Jeez, Mark, why such insecurity as to start a thread specific to this? Who cares what A.wayne says when you're sitting there cuing up a track?
As long as you enjoy it, your system to please your ears, no need to fret. The good news is that tubes generally soft clip way better than SS. It's part of their allure. So even if there is some clipping, it might be largely benign unless you really push or play something with large dynamic swings.
 
mep said:
Given your choice of speakers, I understand why you want as much power as you can afford. The lower the sensitivity, the more power you need. Your 1.7s have a sensitivity of 86 dB. This breaks down as follows:

1w = 86dB
2w = 89dB
4w = 92dB
8w = 95dB
16w = 98dB
32w = 101dB
64w = 104dB
128w = 107dB
256w = 110dB
512w = 113dB
Click to expand...
His equipment lists a 1.6 ???
If it's like this one https://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-magneplanar-mg16qr-loudspeaker-measurements
then the voltage sensitivity is a bit lower...and the impedance is not 8 ohms. Looking at about 2 watts for 84db. Of course, that is a single speaker free space, so it's a bit more complicated than that when factoring a room and the bidirectional nature of the radiation.
 
The fact is we’ve seen mep’s system. But not a.wayne’s or AJ’s. [emoji4]
 
kzhtoo said:
The fact is we’ve seen mep’s system. But not a.wayne’s or AJ’s. [emoji4]
Click to expand...


I have posted pics of my triple stack 901's and anyway what does mine or AJ's system has to do with a science discussion..

MEP is entitled to his own opinion not his own science ...
 
kzhtoo said:
The fact is we’ve seen mep’s system. But not a.wayne’s or AJ’s. [emoji4]
Click to expand...
Don't be afraid to come see and hear some of mine at shows, I don't bite. :)
You can determine clipping by looking MEPs system picture??? Most impressive, bravo sir.
 
You only need as much power that makes your own system in your room sound good to you. Period!

Thats all. Anything else somebody tells you is that somebody trying to make you feel inadequate. That doesn't mean that more power won't sound better - but so would a different amp, pre amp, source, wire, etc.
 
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