How do you feel about the proliferation of Class D in high end products?

I’m sure the new Nord amps are great.

I have an RME ADI-2 FS dac and it’s outstanding. Not a soft or sweet sound but clean, clear, 3D, open, smooth and quiet sound. I love the choice of filters and treble and bass control. It does so much more than I’ll ever understand how to use.

I wanted a versatile solid state dac alternative to my Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE that I could leave on all the time and help break in gear too.


Class D amps still have that negative general perception as to the SQ but slowly the perception is eroding because of new ClassD amps emerging on the bloc. From my point of view I have heard the ATC SCM40 with the ATC SIA2-100 amp (& Dac) at the Bristol HiFi show and was smitten. But I do not have the finance to stretch to an amp costing £2,500.00. So I looked at Nord amps (ClassD) and there is a versatile Dac, namely the Nord One SE INT-C N 252MP Integrated Amp (Class D) 200wts x 8ohms, price £699 and German RME AD1-2 FS Dac & headphone amp price £729. Together I have Amp & Dac for £1,428 that is £1072 less than the ATC amp & Dac, also this Nord amp can give 200wts at 8ohms instead of just 100 wts at 8ohms of the ATC amp which in theory should exploit more deeply the talents of the speakers. Reviews of Nord amps seem positive even sometimes gushing as to SQ, so such as above is the attraction of Class D amp for me. However the hidden snag for me is one buys direct from Nord the amp & dac without any audition, and the 14day return if not satisfied offer from Nord is not really an assurance but more of an hasstle and headache for me, so there is a big element of risk for me. I wish Nord sold amps like AVI use to sell speaker systemsin that they have a thread in forum where users offer to have their amps auditioned in their homes for aspiring new owners. Decisions, decisions!
 
I’m sure the new Nord amps are great.

I have an RME ADI-2 FS dac and it’s outstanding. Not a soft or sweet sound but clean, clear, 3D, open, smooth and quiet sound. I love the choice of filters and treble and bass control. It does so much more than I’ll ever understand how to use.

I wanted a versatile solid state dac alternative to my Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE that I could leave on all the time and help break in gear too.


Thank you for the above and your specific descriptions of the DAC. I was reading your sytem description at the bottom of your post. Does it all relate to one system or is more than one system?
 
I swap components in and out as my mood strikes me. Some pieces stay in longer than others but everything gets a turn. It helps keep things fresh.


Thank you for the above and your specific descriptions of the DAC. I was reading your sytem description at the bottom of your post. Does it all relate to one system or is more than one system?
 
Peter Madnick brought out a Class D amp for Audio Alchemy, which he took over to Elac under their brand name. My dealer had one of the last under the old Audio Alchemy label and I bought it when I put a nice second system in the living room that my wife could play without dealing with a bunch of different switches and buttons. It powers one of the early prototypes of the great TAD CR-1's (called the CM-1's) which my dealer had in storage from nearly a decade ago and sold the combo for a very good price. Nice combination. He also had a Devialet class D preamp/amp demo that he let us try, but it was way too complicated for her to use. Both the Audio Alchemy and Devialet seem to be good matches for the TAD. I've had a pair of flea watt Cary SET amps for my Avantgarde Duos in the music room for almost two decades so the Class D is very different.

Larry
 
Peter I've had a pair of flea watt Cary SET amps for my Avantgarde Duos in the music room for almost two decades so the Class D is very different.

Larry

Hello Larry. Always good to hear from a fellow Avantgarde owner.

Out of interest, have you tried your AGs powered by the Class D amps? I had a loan Diavelet a while back and thought it pretty good, though I kept my 845 mono SETs in the end. However a bit later I decided to look for a SS amp to replace the tubes. Lots of amps tried and tested, but I settled on NAD Master Series M32 and am pretty happy with it, although likely to move to M33 when stocks available - or something else. Peter
 
I have an RME ADI-2 FS dac and it’s outstanding. Not a soft or sweet sound but clean, clear, 3D, open, smooth and quiet sound. I love the choice of filters and treble and bass control. It does so much more than I’ll ever understand how to use.
Nice, how long have you had? I think it actually has presets iirc, so you can just touch a button with a slight HF and or/bass boost contour for bright recording and instantly becomes listenable.
Careful Joe, that's dangerously 21st century and non-torturous, your audiophile card may be in jeopardy!

cheers,

AJ
 
I was debating about letting the cat out of the bag just for that reason. I’ve had it a little more than 2 weeks and I am very impressed. I’m using the NOS filter at the moment and previously experimented with the treble setting, cutting it a little. Wow! And to add to the horror, I’ve been using the RME direct to my amps, specifically the SIT3 lately and enjoying the heck out of the combo.

All the reviews are great and I had been looking at it for a while. The feature set drove me over the edge. I’m very happy with it.

I think I gave up my audiophile card a long time ago. There’s so much moderately priced gear out there that’s killer - you just have to look for it.

Nice, how long have you had? I think it actually has presets iirc, so you can just touch a button with a slight HF and or/bass boost contour for bright recording and instantly becomes listenable.
Careful Joe, that's dangerously 21st century and non-torturous, your audiophile card may be in jeopardy!

cheers,

AJ
 
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Hello Larry. Always good to hear from a fellow Avantgarde owner.

Out of interest, have you tried your AGs powered by the Class D amps? I had a loan Diavelet a while back and thought it pretty good, though I kept my 845 mono SETs in the end. However a bit later I decided to look for a SS amp to replace the tubes. Lots of amps tried and tested, but I settled on NAD Master Series M32 and am pretty happy with it, although likely to move to M33 when stocks available - or something else. Peter

Peter, thanks. I haven't tried the Audio Alchemy amp with my Duos. I would have to get some longer speaker wire, since my Cary SETs are monoblocks sitting right next to each Duo. I actually bought my Duos after I bought my Carys (both used) after falling in love with the SET sound a few years earlier - in a chance encounter when I happened upon Riccardo and Eunice Kron demonstrating their new SET amp in Hong Kong (where I was visiting). After getting the Carys I then needed to find a super efficient speaker that would work with 3.5watts.

Larry
 
Peter, thanks. I haven't tried the Audio Alchemy amp with my Duos. I would have to get some longer speaker wire, since my Cary SETs are monoblocks sitting right next to each Duo. I actually bought my Duos after I bought my Carys (both used) after falling in love with the SET sound a few years earlier - in a chance encounter when I happened upon Riccardo and Eunice Kron demonstrating their new SET amp in Hong Kong (where I was visiting). After getting the Carys I then needed to find a super efficient speaker that would work with 3.5watts.

Larry

It's always really interesting to learn what amps are used with Avantgarde speakers. Many use SETs, a few use PP but many now (or always have) use solid state in one form or another.

When I bought my first pair (Unos) in about 2002, l followed conventional wisdom and used SETs from Art Audio (PX-25 or Carissa) and Consonance (Cyber 845 monos), plus others best forgotten. After a couple of years experimenting with various solid state amps, I'm now using the NAD M32 on my 2006 re-styled Duos.

Listening to what others recommend, I now have a few oddball amps on my Must Try list.

AGD Audion - interesting Gallium Nitride Class D monos that look more like tiny SETs
Bakoon 13r - very small integrated. I hope to try out next week
Valvet 2Ese - ss single ended
SPL Performer s800 - interesting high voltage VOLTAiR technology
NAD M33 - latest Purifi Class D integrated with DAC, streamer and Dirac room correction all in one

Just placed an order for new Duo XDs - can't wait! Peter
 
It's always really interesting to learn what amps are used with Avantgarde speakers. Many use SETs, a few use PP but many now (or always have) use solid state in one form or another.

When I bought my first pair (Unos) in about 2002, l followed conventional wisdom and used SETs from Art Audio (PX-25 or Carissa) and Consonance (Cyber 845 monos), plus others best forgotten. After a couple of years experimenting with various solid state amps, I'm now using the NAD M32 on my 2006 re-styled Duos.

Listening to what others recommend, I now have a few oddball amps on my Must Try list.

AGD Audion - interesting Gallium Nitride Class D monos that look more like tiny SETs
Bakoon 13r - very small integrated. I hope to try out next week
Valvet 2Ese - ss single ended
SPL Performer s800 - interesting high voltage VOLTAiR technology
NAD M33 - latest Purifi Class D integrated with DAC, streamer and Dirac room correction all in one

Just placed an order for new Duo XDs - can't wait! Peter

The chap i bought my speakers off bought some Avantgarde horns , they must have been exceptional to beat the ones he sold me !!! [impulse taus modded by rfc ]
 
Good enough for things like Sonos. Don't think I'd be to keen on using them in my room.


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Not sure who you're replying to but I hope you're not referring to my Avantgarde Duo XD speakers, soon to arrive !!
 
I can't help but think it's just another avenue to charge hundreds of % markup for voodoo science. I don't believe all amps sound the same but if it cost 5 figures to make class d sound good, then maybe it should remain in the entry level category.
 
I feel that the more people get to know and accept class D amps the better. It will not suite everyone's tastes and that is fine. But their value is hard to beat. Now the growing popularity means we have more manufacturers from many different countries, different features, designs, price points, etc.

Through the years I bought a total of 7 amplifiers, just recently bought my 4th class D amplifier, and it is the 2nd based on Hypex NCore.
 
from AudioXpress magazine:

Time to Embrace Evolution

Audio amplifiers—from the latest OEM amp modules and topologies to the most advanced and efficient devices and integrated circuits—target different applications, while developers focus on different requirements.

Meanwhile, there’s a quiet revolution happening in audio amplification. Essentially, it is the direct result of strong innovation in Class-D technology, with incremental improvements introduced on multiple fronts, together with the demanding requirements of new high-volume applications in mobile and personal audio, wireless speakers, and automotive audio. The reality is, in the consumer space at least, there was never so much activity in the segment.

And multiple target applications is the reason why so many advanced products launched over the last decade, while showing technical merit and measurable benefits, very seldom have we found widespread recognition by the audio industry outside of their intended target market.

Many times we have seen new products that benefited from advanced performance in specific criteria (e.g., energy efficiency, dynamics, or distortion) being criticized as disappointing over subjective criteria, such as perceived sound quality. And that is the reason why we can find products—in totally extreme segments—where inventors and/or manufacturers have not fully explored the product’s unique propositions and advantages.

That is also the reason why so many great Class-D amplifiers have reached the market and were poorly received by demanding users in the high-end audio segment, where the criteria for evaluation is frequently subjective and hard to confront.

As Stuart Yaniger writes in this edition, for far too long, Class-D amplifiers were quickly disregarded with statements such as: “It’s improving, but they’re not there yet.” In audioXpress, we like to evaluate things objectively and that is why we review some of the latest products that serve to show how things are not only improving but reaching a level of perfection that is even difficult to measure with standard lab-quality audio analyzers.

As Yaniger also writes this month: “...it is no secret that I believe an amplifier’s job is to make a small signal larger—things like “conveying the emotion of music” are, in my view, best left to the musicians and producers. So the best amplifier is one that has no sound of its own.”

I understand that some of our readers will disagree with this view, and that is precisely
why the audio industry still has room for manufacturers who sell $50,000 USD analog monster- monoblocks that remained basically the same designs for at least 30 years—and whose clients continue to praise them as the best thing there is, because they “deliver exceptional musicality,” while other companies are now focusing on the latest “smart” audio systems, which of course include an advanced stereo amp with integrated DSP, the highest power efficiency and all the connectivity needed to enable applications for today’s market and lifestyles—while costing less than $40 because they target product applications manufactured in the millions, not hundreds.

And that is why we also embarked on a visit to Roskilde in Denmark, to show a bit more about audio development house Purifi Audio, which is a great example of a new company working on the cutting edge to break the barriers of audio fidelity and elevate the threshold of what high-end audio can be—objectively.

As our readers can also attest this month, even a DIY project from an expert such as Dimitri Danyuk—who has been the principal hardware engineer at Harman Luxury Audio since 2013—serves to show how amplifier performance can be significantly improved when there’s an understanding of what was previously done, and what we are trying to achieve.

In this month’s market update, we also discuss a wide gamut of breakthrough solutions in audio amplification, from new-generation devices designed to boost the audio quality and efficiency of phones, wireless speakers, and wearables, to truly smart amplifiers that are meant to solve the challenges of speaker management.

And to add a valuable perspective, Richard Honeycutt travels into the past to reflect on the early inventions that formed the foundation of the live sound equipment we have today—and serves to show how much audio amplification has evolved.

J. Martins
Editor-in-Chief
July 2020
 
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