Horn speakers that mate well with Shindo and those to avoid
- Thread starter briguy
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kev313
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I have pretty high standards for hilariously random audio forum pokes in the eye but this actually crosses the threshold into the land of wasted keystrokes even by my measure. I demand a refund for the data charges associated with reading the post and drafting a reply. Come out with it Wally. If you are trying to make a point about Shindo just put it out there.
Cucumber_jones
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Seriously what the f&^% are you on about.
Admin Edit: Removed curse word.
Admin Edit: Removed curse word.
These speakers look really familiar. I've seen them somewhere. :audiophile:
I still maintain my original post is worth strong consideration.
Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. I'm driving them tonight with a 2 watt 45 SET based Yamamoto. Delicious!
kev313
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Probably. But that's if you're just interested in audio stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I guess.
Audio stuff? You're speaking of the desire for the entire Shindo setup - including speakers, etc?
kev313
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Nah. Tea ceremony mostly.
kev313
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I'm sure your speakers sound great with Shindo. Truly. I'm sure a lot of speakers do. On a fundamental level, there is a big difference between 15" paper woofers and vacuum tubes and class d mega watt room corrected bass. Again, probably both great in their own way. But consider this, are guys that are interested in Shindo tuned electronics - guys that like the idea that he selected this bit of wire here, that *specific* tube, cap, resistor - really going to be interested in Avant G's just because they sound good? Probably not. It's a philosophical mismatch. Who would be interested, then? Easy! Guys who are looking for that "best" sound who, in this case, came to Shindo because they think that is it and who think that your speakers are a good option for maximizing that "best" sound. Those guys do NOT really care about the approach of Shindo. That's cool but it doesn't speak to the core Of Shindo aficionados (can we use that term here? I just twitched and bought wire world cables reflexively.). The enjoyment goes beyond just good sound. It's in the process, the approach, the philosophy, the process, the ceremony, and the deeper meaning.
I totally understand and appreciate the Shindo philosophy and approach. But, I don't think he has Shindo speakers now, so maybe he's looking for something different?
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kev313
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Doesn't have to be Shindo. To me anyway. This is just my point of view but I think plenty of speakers fit the bill: phy-hp, A23, Western Electric, altec. Maybe early jbl. Single drivers from Stephens-Trusonic could be fun. Explore any of the many horns and drivers that aren't prepackaged modern systems - GIP and others.
Learn about the historically great systems and move from there. It's an aesthetic. It a process of embracing historical references in modern systems. Dropping a huge modern glossy horn system seems so....cheap by comparison. Too easy. Too gear flippy floppy.
Again, this is just my approach to Shindo. It's not really my approach to hifi. Just Shindo. And it's infinitely more satisfying to me.
With older horn systems comes older horn problems. Keep that in mind. With mine, I get NONE of that and if you hear what I'm hearing, you would be amazed. I've heard no old horn speaker (at least one that can fit in a normal room), that comes close.
But hopefully the OP will chime in.
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But hopefully the OP will chime in.
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kev313
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Until the next one comes out.
Western Electric 555 still considered the king by many and basically on v1, in audiophile speak, for, what, 80 years?
I'm sure your speakers sound great, Mike. As I said, the appeal of the approach isn't limited to sound (although really there is a type of sound that IS hard to get with new speakers and I'm sure is related to some kind of measurable distortions [emoji16]) and it isn't everyone's .... cup of tea.
Cucumber_jones
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The op currently has shindo speakers.
Face
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I got a good chuckle out of this.
The problem seems that Shindo Labs has gone a long way from studying, copying and then modifying old gear to his standards and philosophy of a sound create producer.
Look at this huge mileage he has gone by starting with his first amps and circuits, which were at the core old tube designs from the golden era of tube audio design from which he learned and studied to build gear not in series, but with small and greater mods to each unit within a series. It was a steady learning process just by building and selling gears. He must have build hundreds of different designs and froom that learning process he went towards to the newer generation of gear until today.
Of course, not many can do this and are capable to came that far along the road.
His audible memory must have been overloaded with acoustical impressions of gear designs.
So to describe in forums what impressions were given by a specific gear and audio chain is like watching cooking shows without ever have the opportunity to smell and taste those menus.
Shindo himself always refused to explain the connections between technical descriptions of schematics and the audible sound differences they create. He just said "listen".
So to tell someone the technical differences of, for e.g. WE 555 and WE 594A, on a forum is possible, but to smell and hear the differences in one given setup is not.
Every given speaker setup of high quality (and that is just a term for the technical conditions, not one synonym to the nowadays often used high-end term, of which most of the products, in a musical sense, are the real opposite of either musical nor highest quality components) is just like a magnifying glass made from different glass qualities. But whom to describe the differences in glass qualities with words?
Some people had refused to audio forums, because its fruitless to correspond over audio. Conversations on a technical level are possible, but not on a truly relevant audible hear and smell level.
So whats the acoustical and audible difference between a Mirrorphonic and a Latour system? Could someone please describe, before there were given hints to aquire something new and different?
And if so, please comment on which incarnation of the speakers this description refers to.
Look at this huge mileage he has gone by starting with his first amps and circuits, which were at the core old tube designs from the golden era of tube audio design from which he learned and studied to build gear not in series, but with small and greater mods to each unit within a series. It was a steady learning process just by building and selling gears. He must have build hundreds of different designs and froom that learning process he went towards to the newer generation of gear until today.
Of course, not many can do this and are capable to came that far along the road.
His audible memory must have been overloaded with acoustical impressions of gear designs.
So to describe in forums what impressions were given by a specific gear and audio chain is like watching cooking shows without ever have the opportunity to smell and taste those menus.
Shindo himself always refused to explain the connections between technical descriptions of schematics and the audible sound differences they create. He just said "listen".
So to tell someone the technical differences of, for e.g. WE 555 and WE 594A, on a forum is possible, but to smell and hear the differences in one given setup is not.
Every given speaker setup of high quality (and that is just a term for the technical conditions, not one synonym to the nowadays often used high-end term, of which most of the products, in a musical sense, are the real opposite of either musical nor highest quality components) is just like a magnifying glass made from different glass qualities. But whom to describe the differences in glass qualities with words?
Some people had refused to audio forums, because its fruitless to correspond over audio. Conversations on a technical level are possible, but not on a truly relevant audible hear and smell level.
So whats the acoustical and audible difference between a Mirrorphonic and a Latour system? Could someone please describe, before there were given hints to aquire something new and different?
And if so, please comment on which incarnation of the speakers this description refers to.
kev313
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I cannot answer the question, but many very good points raised in your post. Thank you.
One question: Do you really see it as a "problem" that Shindo's work evolved from the earlier designs. I like the evolution of the work without having explicit reference to "version 2," "Mk. 3" etc. Everything seems unique but related and equally worthy of exploration without reference to an absolute. I'd love to have more experience with the vintage Shindo.
Life is never a problem, its a mystery.
And so is evolution of art. It should simply happen.
If someone only knows the actual Petrus, he knows a single state of this work. That doesnt make the component unlistenable, but to know more stages of evolution can be helpful in delivering context.
Yes, there is, has and probably never will be an absolute audio component which delivers the truth and only the truth. There can only be different layers of a sound creation more and more be evolved.
Thats the truth with Shindos work.
Its like driving a Mercedes from 1950 and today. Same brand, different car.
And so is evolution of art. It should simply happen.
If someone only knows the actual Petrus, he knows a single state of this work. That doesnt make the component unlistenable, but to know more stages of evolution can be helpful in delivering context.
Yes, there is, has and probably never will be an absolute audio component which delivers the truth and only the truth. There can only be different layers of a sound creation more and more be evolved.
Thats the truth with Shindos work.
Its like driving a Mercedes from 1950 and today. Same brand, different car.
Cucumber_jones
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While Walt's last two posts are interesting I cannot seem to find any relevance to this topic of this thread.
Perhaps if you have a point create a thread and it can be explored further.
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Perhaps if you have a point create a thread and it can be explored further.
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