High-End Audio Faces a Reckoning

JDC said:
My girlfriend's son is 30. He's the typical person his age listening to music on his phone, or in the car. But when he sits in my chair, he gets it. He's wowed. He asks me about tubes and such. I'll be leaving the system to him eventually. I'll need to teach him how to swap a tube... I think there's still a place for high-end gear in the future for the next generation.
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Mechnutt said:
My son is 34 and an audiophile. I got him started as a young teenager. He got all my hand me down gear including a Parasound A21 amp. Now he has a $6K Cary SS Integrated amp, Chord Questest DAC with an upgraded LPS, Rhythmik F12se sub, Wharfedale Evo 4.4 speakers (the weak link but will be upgraded soon) and about $4000 in vinyl gear.
He also likes the same music as I do:), but also turns me on to new music.
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"Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I may not remember, involve me and I understand."

How neat; I'm sure there are some great memories being forged during these shared experiences.
 
Sean said:
"Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I may not remember, involve me and I understand."

How neat; I'm sure there are some great memories being forged during these shared experiences.
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Yes we have made some nice memories. He and I listen to music all the time. We have also been to RMAF together and plan on going to the show in California this summer.
 
a.wayne said:
Measurements have everything to how something sounds , it cant say you will care for it when you apply your tastes , but for sure you can predict outcome after proper measurements especially on amps..
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Fair enough. Maybe we're both kind of right. Measurements have something to do with how something sounds, but certainly not everything. In my experience, ASR's measurements have very little correlation with how products that I have listened to sound.

Proper measurements says it all.

I've found that J.A.s measurements, in conjunction with how something sounds to his ears, are in general more likely to predict how it will sound to my ears than ASR's measurements are. This is a personal experience-based opinion. I don't claim that it's the Gospel.
 
Mike said:
Interesting observation. That is actually a problem. Someone orders the purple preamp and wants it tomorrow. But sadly it has to be made, painted and shipped from Europe. Amazon has changed customer expectations, but bespoke products still take a little time. Patience is appreciated! Right now, we have a dozen people waiting for VPI ADS’. Mat says they can’t get certain parts, and days turn into weeks.

But you are correct that click, add to cart, check out has become the norm for certain products. It’s amazing to me that every manufacturer doesn’t allow e-commerce. They claim it “cheapens” their product. Guess they better not know how many cars I’ve bought online!
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JCS123 said:
Fair enough. Maybe we're both kind of right. Measurements have something to do with how something sounds, but certainly not everything. In my experience, ASR's measurements have very little correlation with how products that I have listened to sound.

Proper measurements says it all.

I've found that J.A.s measurements, in conjunction with how something sounds to his ears, are in general more likely to predict how it will sound to my ears than ASR's measurements are. This is a personal experience-based opinion. I don't claim that it's the Gospel.
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Well measurements alone will not top a subjective and objective review like what JA does , best of both worlds so to speak but i do get value out of ASR measurement's not their ratings as i do with JA measurement's not necessarily his ratings , thou its way less tilted vs ASR ..

ASR doesn't actually do audio reviews they dont do any listening , it’s all measurements and then a big circle jerk :)
 
I was in my 20's in 1980 and there were stereo shops on every corner beginning with rack systems on up to totl KEF, B&W, Klipsch and infinity, but it was speakers that looked the goods like Cerwyn Vega and advertising for Bose, but mostly big boxes with massive woofers. Back then a pair of dream speakers like the R107, 801 or K-horns were a months wages, or close enough to imagine and justify to myself owning. I look at what a months wages will buy me today and Speaker costs from Kef, B&W and Klipsch have far outpaced inflation. My wages rose by 2.5 while the R5, 801 and K horns have increased x6, x10 andx4. Current prices regardless of how well my investments have done, are just much harder to justify today.
 
steve59 said:
I was in my 20's in 1980 and there were stereo shops on every corner beginning with rack systems on up to totl KEF, B&W, Klipsch and infinity, but it was speakers that looked the goods like Cerwyn Vega and advertising for Bose, but mostly big boxes with massive woofers. Back then a pair of dream speakers like the R107, 801 or K-horns were a months wages, or close enough to imagine and justify to myself owning. I look at what a months wages will buy me today and Speaker costs from Kef, B&W and Klipsch have far outpaced inflation. My wages rose by 2.5 while the R5, 801 and K horns have increased x6, x10 andx4. Current prices regardless of how well my investments have done, are just much harder to justify today.
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Many things have increased more than 2.5 times. Just look at cars. Some things, have actually gotten less expensive in relative terms. But so has their quality and longevity.
 
steve59 said:
I was in my 20's in 1980 and there were stereo shops on every corner beginning with rack systems on up to totl KEF, B&W, Klipsch and infinity, but it was speakers that looked the goods like Cerwyn Vega and advertising for Bose, but mostly big boxes with massive woofers. Back then a pair of dream speakers like the R107, 801 or K-horns were a months wages, or close enough to imagine and justify to myself owning. I look at what a months wages will buy me today and Speaker costs from Kef, B&W and Klipsch have far outpaced inflation. My wages rose by 2.5 while the R5, 801 and K horns have increased x6, x10 andx4. Current prices regardless of how well my investments have done, are just much harder to justify today.
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Here is the new math for high-end (digital) system:

Lower Cost High End
Electronics < $2k includes DAC/Pre, Streamer/cables
Speakers/room = Whatever Makes one Happy

Luxury High End
No price limit

The cost of the speakers/room is what clearly define the cost of high-end system. My current speaker-room to electronics ratio is more like 95/5.

PS. High-end sound is now more affordable than ever before.
 
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Mr Peabody said:
I was surprised to see Fosi on your list. No direct experience from what I've seen online that stuff is so cheap I'm surprised any margin.
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It’s on Direct only for a reason. Drop ship. And no margin, that’s why it’s an online play only. Sell 10 items for a cup of coffee. LOL.
 
Mike said:
It’s on Direct only for a reason. Drop ship. And no margin, that’s why it’s an online play only. Sell 10 items for a cup of coffee. LOL.
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You should compare the V3 mono amps to the Boulder. Might be a giant killer. :cool::devilish:
 
Those Fosi mono blocks apparently sound great with an OP amp and a LPS mod. Without them, I read they can be grainy or edgy sounding in the top end.

I love the fact that Andrew Jones and Elac with their Debut speakers really turned the audio world upside down. It forced other manufacturers to step up to the plate and improve their budget speakers. They are so much better than just 10-15 years ago. Same with cheap DACs and chip amps. For under $1K you can put together a good sounding system for a smaller room. Jump up another $500 to $1,000 dollars and you have a very good sounding system.
 
Mechnutt said:
Those Fosi mono blocks apparently sound great with an OP amp and a LPS mod. Without them, I read they can be grainy or edgy sounding in the top end.

I love the fact that Andrew Jones and Elac with their Debut speakers really turned the audio world upside down. It forced other manufacturers to step up to the plate and improve their budget speakers. They are so much better than just 10-15 years ago. Same with cheap DACs and chip amps. For under $1K you can put together a good sounding system for a smaller room. Jump up another $500 to $1,000 dollars and you have a very good sounding system.
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They are fine without the upgrades. Not SOTA but could be used in a very listenable system.

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