High-End Audio Faces a Reckoning

nicoff said:
I went to live performances of operatic and classical works last week. Indeed anyone thinking that their audio system can reproduce the sound of an orchestra or a live performance like the one you attended needs to have their ears checked.
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True, but Andre Bochelli, Elton John and James Taylor sound far better in my room than they did at Amelia Arena.

Many live performances today leave a lot to be desired in terms of sound quality.

Now, a pure acoustic performance in a small room….well, that’s another story.
 
Mike said:
True, but Andre Bochelli, Elton John and James Taylor sound far better in my room than they did at Amelia Arena.

Many live performances today leave a lot to be desired in terms of sound quality.

Now, a pure acoustic performance in a small room….well, that’s another story.
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No mention of a symphonic works in a concert hall? Try Mahler’s 2nd in your audio system and compare to the real thing.
 
nicoff said:
No mention of a symphonic works in a concert hall? Try Mahler’s 2nd in your audio system and compare to the real thing.
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Oh, I’ve been to the symphony. No contest. But I rarely listen to classical, so my point of reference is venues I’ve heard the music I do listen to.
 
Mechnutt said:
I have thought the same thing for so many years. It is really bad on ASR, SHF and Redditt. Some one will ask about a $1500 TT and these snarky people try to steer him to a Fluance RT-85. And so many of the guys use internal phono preamps on their budget TT.
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And don't forget forums like WBF that ban people (several have posted affirming as much on this forum) when people dare to say anything other than glowing praise for the companies who pay the forum for preferential treatment.

Think about it - WBF BANNED Mike (the owner of this forum) yet the admin from WBF (Tom) posts here.

Just as bad as Amir on ASR kicking people off who disagree with him.
 
nicoff said:
That’s one way to look at it, but if measurements were really “meaningless,” we wouldn’t have airplanes that fly, bridges that stand, or audio gear that works the way it does. The key isn’t to dismiss measurements — it’s to understand which ones matter and how to interpret them. Bad methodology gives junk data, sure. But well-designed, repeatable tests are the reason engineers can actually design gear instead of guessing. I am an engineer.
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Respectfully I think you are mixing them up. The measurements for airplanes and bridges aren't related to basing on if you'll like how they sound on your audio system.
 
Michaels HiFi said:
And don't forget forums like WBF that ban people (several have posted affirming as much on this forum) when people dare to say anything other than glowing praise for the companies who pay the forum for preferential treatment.

Think about it - WBF BANNED Mike (the owner of this forum) yet the admin from WBF (Tom) posts here.

Just as bad as Amir on ASR kicking people off who disagree with him.
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True. My crime was posting the 50th Anniversary Abbey Road event at the store that Phillip of On A Higher Note was sponsoring.

Heck, Ron is even one of my dealers. We clearly know where the problem lays.
 
Mike said:
True, but Andre Bochelli, Elton John and James Taylor sound far better in my room than they did at Amelia Arena.

Many live performances today leave a lot to be desired in terms of sound quality.

Now, a pure acoustic performance in a small room….well, that’s another story.
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Mike said:
True. My crime was posting the 50th Anniversary Abbey Road event at the store that Phillip of On A Higher Note was sponsoring.

Heck, Ron is even one of my dealers. We clearly know where the problem lays.
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A little off topic but who has heard the B&W Abby Road demo? I heard it at the Audio Advice show in my home state of NC. Needless to say I was NOT impressed and it was setup in a large room with sound treatment.
 
Michaels HiFi said:
And don't forget forums like WBF that ban people (several have posted affirming as much on this forum) when people dare to say anything other than glowing praise for the companies who pay the forum for preferential treatment.

Think about it - WBF BANNED Mike (the owner of this forum) yet the admin from WBF (Tom) posts here.

Just as bad as Amir on ASR kicking people off who disagree with him.
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Wow I didn't know Mike was on WBF!! What did he get banned for? I have met Tom and he is a good guy.
 
nc42acc said:
A little off topic but who has heard the B&W Abby Road demo? I heard it at the Audio Advice show in my home state of NC. Needless to say I was NOT impressed and it was setup in a large room with sound treatment.
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You’re missing the point. The Abbey Road event was to celebrate the 50th anniversary of The Beatles Abbey Road album. Phillip sponsored the event at dealers stores. He asked participating dealers to go to WBF and post their location and participation.
 
Mike said:
You’re missing the point. The Abbey Road event was to celebrate the 50th anniversary of The Beatles Abbey Road album. Phillip sponsored the event at dealers stores. He asked participating dealers to go to WBF and post their location and participation.
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They didn't play any Beatles music. Am I missing something? I knew nothing about it until I saw the room at the show. I sometimes live under a rock......
 
Mike said:
True, but Andre Bochelli, Elton John and James Taylor sound far better in my room than they did at Amelia Arena.

Many live performances today leave a lot to be desired in terms of sound quality.
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I hesitated until today to share my Manifesto for Audiophilia with you, but after this observation, I couldn't resist any longer. Let's see how many of you agree with me!

https://www.audioshark.org/threads/audiophile-manifesto.26760/




 
Mike said:
measurements only matter guys.
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Ohh , the class D measurements tweaked to their Biases is what really count guys..!

Challenge them technically and they make TDS twats look sane ..

:)

I actually do go there but only for Amir’s Bench test results for information ….

Regards
 
JCS123 said:
9 seconds average time per visit on this site and 198 on ASR could be seen as an indicator that something is a little off in the current state of high-end audio. The more I look at ASR, the more impressed I am with all of the measurements that they throw up and how the info is presented. It looks very impressive, and I can appreciate all of the work that went in to all of this testing - except for the fact that all of those measurements often have little to no bearing whatsoever on how a piece of equipment SOUNDS to me. I base this observation solely on tests that I have done on my own equipment that sounds fantastic to me but measures poorly on ASR.

Yes, testing by measurements AND listening is the best way to go - that goes without saying. But if I only had one of those to work with when considering a product, there's no contest - I trust my ears alone, and I would NEVER trust measurements alone.

An example is the new Imersiv DAC. It claims a SNR of 168 (28 bits). These numbers are off the charts, and if accurate, do indeed represent the paradigm shift that Imersiv claims. Based on what reading I have done on it, I have a feeling that this unit lives up to the hype. But I wouldn't buy this or any other item in its price range based on measurements alone and without listening first.

(Just one guy's opinion.)
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Measurements have everything to how something sounds , it cant say you will care for it when you apply your tastes , but for sure you can predict outcome after proper measurements especially on amps..
 
Mechnutt said:
The great Nelson Pass said that he can design an amp that measures like crap but sounds good and he could design an amp with perfect specs that sounds like ass. There in lies the problem with ASR. Those guys all think these cheap chinese dacs that measure extremely well sound better than dacs costing thousands. And if you disagree, you get ridiculed and booted. What a bunch of hypocrites. There are plenty of their disciples on the SHF as well.
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nc42acc said:
I wonder why the "measurebator" forums bring so many fans? I understand basic measurements can show major flaws but not a tool for measuring subjective sound quality. What type of content attracts all audio interested people to specific forums? Seems a very high schoolish "click" enviroment.
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The intellectually interested type who understands mostly whats being tested ..!

To be fair stereophile does the same , carefully selective measurements to protect the innocent , ASR does the same to make class D look superior so they can have a laugh ..!

JA has been taken to task many times over the years for his testing practices, mostly for whats left out,
So ASR is not alone here ..!

Lately the old standard of preconditioning before bench testing has been changed as its a big negative to class D amps and deemed unnecessary ..

Plenty politics everywhere ….
 
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