High End Audio Dealers

Mechnutt said:
I sure was but I hit a concrete post at 15 mph just below my right knee. It threw me 12 feet onto the pavement. I fractured ribs, fractured my knee, tore the post cruciate ligament, separated my shoulder, tore cartilage in it along with a torn labrum, tore trapezius and subscapularis muscles. I had shoulder surgery in August and next March I undergo knee replacement. I was in the hospital for a few days.
Click to expand...

Oh no! That sounds painful. Glad you’re ok.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Mechnutt said:
I hit a concrete post at 15 mph just below my right knee. I was in the hospital for a few days.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry to read this and I hope you get well soon. Recovery can be very depressing at times so hang in there. I'm an avid cyclist who's had a few very serious accidents over the years --- I'll say a prayer for you.
 
Mechnutt said:
I sure was but I hit a concrete post at 15 mph just below my right knee. It threw me 12 feet onto the pavement. I fractured ribs, fractured my knee, tore the post cruciate ligament, separated my shoulder, tore cartilage in it along with a torn labrum, tore trapezius and subscapularis muscles. I had shoulder surgery in August and next March I undergo knee replacement. I was in the hospital for a few days.
Click to expand...

So glad you are on the mend. Kudos to you sir, for all you do!

My wife was a Hospice RN. Unfortunately she ended up having to retire one year earlier then she wanted to. She is a cancer survivor and therefore could not do patient care with Covid :(.
 
Mike said:
I totally agree with you, 100%. This has been a major bone of contention for me too. If I can buy a new Corvette from Boston, a new Porsche from California, why can’t I buy a McIntosh amp from those same areas?

I purposely seek out brands which do not have such archaic rules. At this point, I really only have one that still thinks this way. It’s quite silly: I sell a pair of speakers to a fellow in Illinois and now you want me to point him to the local dealer for the amp and preamp he wants just because of some archaic rule? I think not. What happens in this situation? We will discuss all the brands I can sell him and none of the ones I can’t. Your brand loses out.

It reminds me of a story about Audio Research. I have a very good customer in Dublin, IL, quite a trek from Chicago. He called me one day and said, “I want to try tubes!”. OK then, we began talking about amps, preamps, etc. I placed a call to my rep Aldo at ARC and asked if I could sell to him and they said, “no, you have to send him to the dealer in Chicago.” I advised the customer of their reactions, he was more pissed off than I was!! (I think annoyed that he couldn’t spend HIS money where HE wanted to) and he also added that he didn’t like the dealer in Chicago, so guess what? We went with VAC. They were very happy to get the big order. ARC lost out big time. Pure stupidity.

When I first got into the business, territories and that way of thinking were still strong in manufacturers minds. Today, that’s gone out the window for the most part. Under Darryl, I have heard Wilson has done a 180 on territories as well. They’ve come into line with modern thinking around relationships vs zip codes.

I want to give credit where credit is due. Alon at Magico was really a leader in this new thinking. I remember years ago, he stood up in front of all the dealers at Magico HQ and said, “stop asking me about territories. I don’t believe in territories. Whoever owns the relationship with the customer, owns the deal. End of story.” Music to my ears!

But you have to understand, there are a LOT of dealers who do not like the new world order. They bitch that manufacturers don’t send them leads (I’ve always said, it’s not their job to send me leads, it’s my job!). They complain about not having territories any more. They are struggling to operate in the new world order. Territories are what I believe, created some arrogant, poor customer service experiences (think: the old, grumpy rude New York dealer).

What was the thinking around this old way of thinking? “The dealer invested money in our brand, we need to ‘protect’ them.” or “Our product is so amazing, the customer will buy from where we advise them to buy from.” Totally archaic.

The investment doesn’t stop at the purchase of the demo gear, that’s just the beginning. Thankfully today, we are seeing, for the most part, the modernizing of the industry in how we engage with customers. I think Amazon and how people buy today is really what fueled this change.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Great post Mike!
 
SCAudiophile said:
There is another side to the Audio Dealer - Customer coin as it were that also bears discussing. This may strike some as controversial and it is not my intent to inflame or offend anyone so please read this in the spirit that it is intended.

The vast majority of write-ups on this topic, and certainly the latest article PTA, focus on the negative customer behavior angle to things. The fact is, there are myriad examples of good, mediocre and bad on both sides of the aisle, both dealer and customer. Also the article in PTA calling out the fact that a dealer will be our "best friend" is a bizarre use of the term. True friendship, by its definition, at least to me, includes mutual interest of both parties in the other however it does NOT include one party deriving financial profit from the other. That at least IMHO tends to skew the relationship one way or the other and that is certainly not friendship. I think though that the author was using the phrase loosely and to make a slightly different point so I'll leave it there and hope to avoid spawning philosophical debates on the subject!

More to the point...

The money that gets spent on high-end audio is for most of us, like our cars, automobiles (above and beyond the basic need to have a car for conveyance), hard-earned money that often must be saved after life's priorities are paid for, over the course of months and sometimes years.

High-end audio is one of the few and possibly, the only luxury item market, where dealers expect manufacturers to protect territories and in many cases, expect customers to adhere to them no matter what "just because" and where a few dealers out there think that just because they operate in a region and have a given logo to sell that they are now "your dealer". I have experienced this first hand 3 times and will explain in more detail why I'm calling out this aspect.

Consumers who spend their hard-earned money have the right in any markets to spend where they get the best combination of;

  • product including availability of product at the level we are interested in; that product is often people & their knowledge as well
  • true hands-on knowledge of those products
  • price, warranty, support (after all, business is competitive)
  • service
  • respect as a customer and overall customer care and decent treatment from a human point of view

No one thinks twice about going to multiple automobile dealerships in various cities and towns and sometimes even nearby states to seek out and drive cars we are interested in and to shop for the "best combination of the above points" relative to our personal priorities. It's the same for boats, motorcycles, jewelry, art work, furniture or anything else. "Best" is relative to our personal priorities and is often a mix as for example, many of us may elect to pay a few percent more if that auto dealership is closer to our home or has a better service rating or treated us better or has the actual model of car we are interested in and is hands-on knowledgeable about that model, not just the model 2 or 3 levels lower with the sales pitch "the upper model is simply better, you should buy it from me as I'm your dealer" being their only response.

In my line of work, the same thing holds; I am either selling the best combination of (superior people, knowledge, hands-on experience, service, results and price) or my firm may lose the deal! It's a balancing act where higher price may be positioned as a "value-sell" in terms of superior track record and proven results, more experienced people, knowledge level, customer care, etc...but rest assured, customers don't buy "just because" we offer something to them and are close by.

It's mystifying to me that high end audio, as a market, has dealers with the EXPECTATION that just because we move to a zip code that is reasonably nearby or we've called them to ask questions about a specific product in a manufacturer's line that they offer that when they only have the unit 2, 3, 4 levels below that and cannot answer even the most basic questions about the more advanced unit or speaker I am interested in, why they think I "must" buy from them or that somehow they are now "my dealer" and I owe them my purchase.

If a seller of anything, audio, cars, jewelry, furniture, whatever.....can provide the product, knowledge, service, price and overall treatment as a customer, etc...and add value to my life, then and only then do they get the sale. It's really that simple. Why in high-end audio for some reason people seek to enforce different rules than for any other area of Seller - Consumer relations is quite honestly beyond me.

I've run into the negative side of these behaviors 3 times and the posts above reflect that I'm sure.

All this stated, there are many audio dealers who definitely provide all the points above, present company (the forum owner) included :-) Those rare and good people in this industry don't deserve the tire kickers and purely price mongers who will use and abuse them either.

FWIW...
Click to expand...

Well said. nice post.
 
Many years ago we had at least 5 or 6 hi fi shops in Tampa. One store had Advent, Yamaha and Dual while another store had Bose, Sansui and Thorens, etc. We went to audition equipment and see what was new. In those days price shopping was not on our agenda. Then Sound Advice came into the area and changed the whole thing.
 
Mechnutt said:
I sure was but I hit a concrete post at 15 mph just below my right knee. It threw me 12 feet onto the pavement. I fractured ribs, fractured my knee, tore the post cruciate ligament, separated my shoulder, tore cartilage in it along with a torn labrum, tore trapezius and subscapularis muscles. I had shoulder surgery in August and next March I undergo knee replacement. I was in the hospital for a few days.
Click to expand...

Ouch! I used to be a cyclist and stopped a few years ago. Roads have become too crowded and I’ve seen too many instances of riders getting hit by drivers that are not paying attention.

Hope for a speedy recovery!
 
Mechnutt said:
I sure was but I hit a concrete post at 15 mph just below my right knee. It threw me 12 feet onto the pavement. I fractured ribs, fractured my knee, tore the post cruciate ligament, separated my shoulder, tore cartilage in it along with a torn labrum, tore trapezius and subscapularis muscles. I had shoulder surgery in August and next March I undergo knee replacement. I was in the hospital for a few days.
Click to expand...

Wow,

Sorry to see this , i used to race bikes many moons ago and got hit out training one afternoon , got put up for months, wheel chair the whole bit, so this hits close. Packed up riding for almost 2 decades, but started back 3 yrs ago , seriously last 2yrs , its dangerous im careful of routes chosen, but a nut inna car is everywhere , it's a chance im willing to take Due to the benefits of being fit again, I love it , will absolutely keep riding until i cant ....






Regards ...
 
SCAudiophile said:
There is another side to the Audio Dealer - Customer coin as it were that also bears discussing. This may strike some as controversial and it is not my intent to inflame or offend anyone so please read this in the spirit that it is intended.

The vast majority of write-ups on this topic, and certainly the latest article PTA, focus on the negative customer behavior angle to things. The fact is, there are myriad examples of good, mediocre and bad on both sides of the aisle, both dealer and customer. Also the article in PTA calling out the fact that a dealer will be our "best friend" is a bizarre use of the term. True friendship, by its definition, at least to me, includes mutual interest of both parties in the other however it does NOT include one party deriving financial profit from the other. That at least IMHO tends to skew the relationship one way or the other and that is certainly not friendship. I think though that the author was using the phrase loosely and to make a slightly different point so I'll leave it there and hope to avoid spawning philosophical debates on the subject!

More to the point...

The money that gets spent on high-end audio is for most of us, like our cars, automobiles (above and beyond the basic need to have a car for conveyance), hard-earned money that often must be saved after life's priorities are paid for, over the course of months and sometimes years.

High-end audio is one of the few and possibly, the only luxury item market, where dealers expect manufacturers to protect territories and in many cases, expect customers to adhere to them no matter what "just because" and where a few dealers out there think that just because they operate in a region and have a given logo to sell that they are now "your dealer". I have experienced this first hand 3 times and will explain in more detail why I'm calling out this aspect.

Consumers who spend their hard-earned money have the right in any markets to spend where they get the best combination of;

  • product including availability of product at the level we are interested in; that product is often people & their knowledge as well
  • true hands-on knowledge of those products
  • price, warranty, support (after all, business is competitive)
  • service
  • respect as a customer and overall customer care and decent treatment from a human point of view

No one thinks twice about going to multiple automobile dealerships in various cities and towns and sometimes even nearby states to seek out and drive cars we are interested in and to shop for the "best combination of the above points" relative to our personal priorities. It's the same for boats, motorcycles, jewelry, art work, furniture or anything else. "Best" is relative to our personal priorities and is often a mix as for example, many of us may elect to pay a few percent more if that auto dealership is closer to our home or has a better service rating or treated us better or has the actual model of car we are interested in and is hands-on knowledgeable about that model, not just the model 2 or 3 levels lower with the sales pitch "the upper model is simply better, you should buy it from me as I'm your dealer" being their only response.

In my line of work, the same thing holds; I am either selling the best combination of (superior people, knowledge, hands-on experience, service, results and price) or my firm may lose the deal! It's a balancing act where higher price may be positioned as a "value-sell" in terms of superior track record and proven results, more experienced people, knowledge level, customer care, etc...but rest assured, customers don't buy "just because" we offer something to them and are close by.

It's mystifying to me that high end audio, as a market, has dealers with the EXPECTATION that just because we move to a zip code that is reasonably nearby or we've called them to ask questions about a specific product in a manufacturer's line that they offer that when they only have the unit 2, 3, 4 levels below that and cannot answer even the most basic questions about the more advanced unit or speaker I am interested in, why they think I "must" buy from them or that somehow they are now "my dealer" and I owe them my purchase.

If a seller of anything, audio, cars, jewelry, furniture, whatever.....can provide the product, knowledge, service, price and overall treatment as a customer, etc...and add value to my life, then and only then do they get the sale. It's really that simple. Why in high-end audio for some reason people seek to enforce different rules than for any other area of Seller - Consumer relations is quite honestly beyond me.

I've run into the negative side of these behaviors 3 times and the posts above reflect that I'm sure.

All this stated, there are many audio dealers who definitely provide all the points above, present company (the forum owner) included :-) Those rare and good people in this industry don't deserve the tire kickers and purely price mongers who will use and abuse them either.

FWIW...
Click to expand...

Except for Sharkey Mike. Most Audio Dealers can drop dead IMO, errrr just saying .................................... :)



Regards..
 
a.wayne said:
Except for Sharkey Mike. Most Audio Dealers can drop dead IMO, errrr just saying .................................... :)



Regards..
Click to expand...

That’s not nice. There’s some good ones out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Visited my closest dealer today, operates it out of his home. Very poor room acoustics and setup with no way to determine what anything sounded like. Demo requires them to deliver and set up in your house. Going to listen to the Wilson speakers at another local dealer Wednesday. If it goes anything like today I am done dealer shopping and will just buy second hand off Audiogon based on reviews. Frustrating
 
I'd much rather hear in my home than in a dealer's room that sounds nothing like my room! I'd be happy to have them bring the Wilsons to my home so I could hear them.
 
Catch 22. You cannot discern the qualities of the equipment, amp and preamp in this situation today. So I have them deliver and set up and it sounds horrendous, nothing like what I expected. Now they have two days invested in hifi delivery and retrieval, no sale. So does this make me the asshole customer? If you are going to be in the business properly set up your listening space so your customers can make a reasonable judgement of the sound of what you are selling. Still frustrated.

To add....If I am a distributor of a line of equipment and I am too lazy to get my ass on the road to visit my dealers shame on me for not getting any orders because the dealer has a subpar listening environment. The lines in this listening room made Jays top list so no bestbuy midfi crap.

Bart001 said:
I'd much rather hear in my home than in a dealer's room that sounds nothing like my room! I'd be happy to have them bring the Wilsons to my home so I could hear them.
Click to expand...
 
nc42acc said:
Visited my closest dealer today, operates it out of his home. Very poor room acoustics and setup with no way to determine what anything sounded like. Demo requires them to deliver and set up in your house. Going to listen to the Wilson speakers at another local dealer Wednesday. If it goes anything like today I am done dealer shopping and will just buy second hand off Audiogon based on reviews. Frustrating
Click to expand...

So a dealer who doesn't have the capability for a decent in house setup, is gonna deliver and
setup in short time and in an unknown space a proper demo ..!


:roflmao:
 
That "unknown space" is the customers home(!) I don't understand why people are more interested in hearing hi fi gear in a dealer's room than in their own home.

Once you buy it - where will the gear reside???
 
Bart001 said:
That "unknown space" is the customers home(!) I don't understand why people are more interested in hearing hi fi gear in a dealer's room than in their own home.

Once you buy it - where will the gear reside???
Click to expand...

it’s not practical in every circumstance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Bart001 said:
That "unknown space" is the customers home(!) I don't understand why people are more interested in hearing hi fi gear in a dealer's room than in their own home.

Once you buy it - where will the gear reside???
Click to expand...

The dealer has poor sound in a known space , his home ..!

So do you think he is now capable of going into an unknown to him space ( your home ) and produce decent results..!

I dont think so ...!!!

You taking it home to hear it in your space really means naught without the expertise to make the setup correct , ideally you want a dealer with an optimized as possible setup so you can determine if the product performance envelope makes it to your expected level of playback, if so then the next step is to take it home and optimize your listening room to accomodate the setup ..!


Regards
 
I would guess that someone must have a terrible room at home for any gear to sound drastically different than in a dealer's room, assuming the dealer has a decent room. A few years ago I was at Magico listening to a comparison of the Magico S5 to the S7. While the S5 was playing I commented that it sounded just like mine. Alon Wolf said, "That's the point". However, my S5s are in my living room, not a custom designed, and super quiet, listening room.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top