High End Audio Dealers

W9TR said:
Really good article, thanks for sharing it.
How big do you think the high end audio market is today?
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$1 billion+ WORLD WIDE, excluding CI and HT. Also, EXCLUDING headphones which are north of $10 billion on their own.


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Mike said:
$1 billion+ WORLD WIDE, excluding CI and HT. Also, EXCLUDING headphones which are north of $10 billion on their own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Thanks - kind of what I expected. The headphone number was a surprise though. So high end audio is a very small market as markets go. This gives me a greater appreciation for all the great people in the business.

Thanks again.
 
This article reminds me of the days I used to manage audio stores. It was great if not for the customers. But, you would also get some really great people who truly appreciated your assistance, knowledge and want for them to get what was right for them.

Unfortunately you would get the 10% or so who would not think twice about taking up an hour of your time, on a Saturday when the store was full, just to then go and see if they could beat the price. Beyond frustrating.

Every person should be required to work retail for one year. They would never treat stores and sales people like this again.

I now always ask for my best price, but, the couple of people I deal with know that if I call and ask about something I will buy. Our Mercedes dealer does not mind that I will work hard with him because he also knows that Cheryal and I have purchased nine cars from him.

The point is, I never did mind when a customer worked hard with me when I also knew they were a customer that bought from me. I had a lot of consistent customers because they knew up front I would give them my honest opinions and always give them as good as I could.

And this I believe is the entire point of the article. Appreciate your dealers time and efforts. You do not deserve their time and attention if you have no intentions of buying from them.
 
Randy I agree with most of what you say. The only issue is there are many “tire kicker” customers in this industry and the sales teams need to account for this. How you are treated during the discovery phase of what gear you are seeking will determine if you come back or not at the time of purchase. There are so many choices and combinations available to us audiophiles for such a small market. Treat everyone as a customer ready to drop six figures on a system and hopefully your treatment to that customer will leave an impression on them to come back.

On the other hand there are the few who ruin it for the honest tire kickers/buyers. I recently visited Suncoast and had the pleasure to see Mikes business. He shared stories of people borrowing gear to demo returning it in unsalable condition. Looking back at the conversation it seemed Mike kept these encounters fresh in his memory. This is a shame Mike has had to deal with these grifters since he really offers a great buying experience.


Randy Myers said:
This article reminds me of the days I used to manage audio stores. It was great if not for the customers. But, you would also get some really great people who truly appreciated your assistance, knowledge and want for them to get what was right for them.

Unfortunately you would get the 10% or so who would not think twice about taking up an hour of your time, on a Saturday when the store was full, just to then go and see if they could beat the price. Beyond frustrating.

Every person should be required to work retail for one year. They would never treat stores and sales people like this again.

I now always ask for my best price, but, the couple of people I deal with know that if I call and ask about something I will buy. Our Mercedes dealer does not mind that I will work hard with him because he also knows that Cheryal and I have purchased nine cars from him.

The point is, I never did mind when a customer worked hard with me when I also knew they were a customer that bought from me. I had a lot of consistent customers because they knew up front I would give them my honest opinions and always give them as good as I could.

And this I believe is the entire point of the article. Appreciate your dealers time and efforts. You do not deserve their time and attention if you have no intentions of buying from them.
Click to expand...
 
nc42acc said:
Randy I agree with most of what you say. The only issue is there are many “tire kicker” customers in this industry and the sales teams need to account for this. How you are treated during the discovery phase of what gear you are seeking will determine if you come back or not at the time of purchase. There are so many choices and combinations available to us audiophiles for such a small market. Treat everyone as a customer ready to drop six figures on a system and hopefully your treatment to that customer will leave an impression on them to come back.

On the other hand there are the few who ruin it for the honest tire kickers/buyers. I recently visited Suncoast and had the pleasure to see Mikes business. He shared stories of people borrowing gear to demo returning it in unsalable condition. Looking back at the conversation it seemed Mike kept these encounters fresh in his memory. This is a shame Mike has had to deal with these grifters since he really offers a great buying experience.
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Hey Marty, I actually 100% agree with you on treating every customer with respect and treat them as a person who wants to learn and understand. However, I also believe that all customers also need to treat the dealer, salesman, or whatever they want to call them with the same respect and also understand the situation. If the store is very busy (ala a Saturday) then they have to understand that this is not the time to expect the dealer to spend hours with them. Also, it is not right to play one dealer off another. I have seen customers playing one salesperson off another which is just plan rude.

I also believe that if a dealer is willing to loan a piece it is the customers responsibility to care for the piece and it should only be a piece that the customer is seriously considering purchasing. Returning a piece that is not 100% perfect is completely unacceptable.
 
Unfortunately Randy we don’t live in a utopia for audio buying. All the dealers near me are mostly run from their home so appointment only. One dealer has two store fronts but as a perfect example I was in the market to buy speakers and was treated like a COVID infected leper. Luckily I found my Von Schweikert shortly after that visit. I have never stepped foot in those stores since. I tend to email the dealers and ask my questions as this gives them time to respond and answer at their leisure. If they don’t have time to at least answer an email this indicates they will have even less time for me if I decide to come listen. Maybe there should be a golden rule for all audio dealers.


Randy Myers said:
Hey Marty, I actually 100% agree with you on treating every customer with respect and treat them as a person who wants to learn and understand. However, I also believe that all customers also need to treat the dealer, salesman, or whatever they want to call them with the same respect and also understand the situation. If the store is very busy (ala a Saturday) then they have to understand that this is not the time to expect the dealer to spend hours with them. Also, it is not right to play one dealer off another. I have seen customers playing one salesperson off another which is just plan rude.

I also believe that if a dealer is willing to loan a piece it is the customers responsibility to care for the piece and it should only be a piece that the customer is seriously considering purchasing. Returning a piece that is not 100% perfect is completely unacceptable.
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My experiences were back when B&M was almost the only choice. I only recall one guy that ran from his home and had his "clients". He was obviously ahead of his time. At that time there were the local dealers sometimes with multiple local stores... the big chain stores came in and acted almost like the Internet sellers do now.
 
In a perfect world.... Every High End Audio dealer should expect every client to come in and spend six figures after a brief listen.

In reality, just like any other business, you get a few high end clients that will spend a ton of money over the years, some that may spend a little and some that will totally waste your time...

It takes all kinds. If you don't want to deal with the general public, make your business by appointment only and with a large deposit before entering the door LOL.

Common guys, high end audio carries one of the largest dealer markups out there. Car dealers work much harder for a measly few percentage points...
 
TheOctopus said:
Common guys, high end audio carries one of the largest dealer markups out there. Car dealers work much harder for a measly few percentage points...
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I think most in market for high audio already know this. This is why I would never pay MSRP. I fully understand overhead and time spent with a customer is money but if a fair price is quoted then there is no reason to look elsewhere. IMHO
 
Audiophilehi said:
I think most in market for high audio already know this. This is why I would never pay MSRP. I fully understand overhead and time spent with a customer is money but if a fair price is quoted then there is no reason to look elsewhere. IMHO
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Notice I did not mention anything relating to price in my post above. I kept my comments relating to serving customers and investing dealer time into such activities only. Given the healthy profit margins, it should more than compensate for the law of averages when it comes to the retail business model.

Of course everyone always wants to pay the least amount possible. However, there were times when I paid full retail as there was no other option, there were times I got discounts and it was appreciated. There were times when I gladly paid full retail because I was given vertical trade up opportunities from my local dealer making upgrades a no brainer while getting full trade in value of what I paid for the last pair of speakers. That only becomes possible when working within the healthy profit margin... It was a win win for a guy who enjoyed the constant upgrades, myself and the guy who was glad to supply the thrill, my dealer...

At the end of the day, if you enjoy this hobby and want to upgrade often, do try to be fair to your local dealer and develop a relationship that would be fair and pleasant for both parties involved.
 
I have much respect for all Hi-Fi dealers, I know for the most part they are in it for the love of music. I would gladly pay more to the dealer I have a relationship with then to save a few dollars to a dealer I don't even know.
 
My experience with brick and mortar audio dealers has been mixed, and that’s being generous.

I have found one dealer that I have done regular business with over the past 20 years and it’s been great. I get good advice, competitive pricing, the chance to home audition gear, and great service. I buy a fair amount of stuff from them. Other dealers have talked down to me or wasted my time, and that’s a shame.
 
TheOctopus said:
Common guys, high end audio carries one of the largest dealer markups out there. Car dealers work much harder for a measly few percentage points...
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That is completely incorrect, a high margin product would run in the 300-900% region. Audio is nowhere near this.
 
dznutz said:
That is completely incorrect, a high margin product would run in the 300-900% region. Audio is nowhere near this.
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Why don't we also throw pharmaceuticals in there and evoke Martin Shkreli and his life saving drug that went from $13.50 to $750 overnight... Or 1400% profit margins of Big Pharma. He is in jail now, Big Pharma is not but thanks for pointing out that there are even higher margin products out there. Makes me feel better that speakers costing as much as a luxury automobile are ONLY marked up 50%....
 
Again, many things wrong with your statement, but more importantly… why are you here then? Stop paying these insane prices and move on to another hobby?
 
dznutz said:
Again, many things wrong with your statement, but more importantly… why are you here then? Stop paying these insane prices and move on to another hobby?
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Read my posts above where I mentioned paying full retail myself and building a relationship with dealers. Don’t tell me what to do and don’t be rude, you wouldn’t do it to my face. Ok MR. dizzy nuts?
 
Indeed very interesting and forthright article --thank you for posting Mike. But we all know this subject will never be resolved

--hell its been around since the 70's:rolleyes:--anyone trust Shelley's?:|-- The paragraph on "Bad Eggs" yes they are in EVERY game in this world just we kick on with the rollers in the Hi Fi idiom however thankfully Cream rises to the top like your good self!

--the Good Hi End Guys will be rewarded -their passion will rub off on the buyer and hopeful synergy for both in an outcome will eventuate.

Cavet Emptor

From the Article--

“Consulting is the territory of a high-end audio dealer. Not us.” Yes Eric, you’re absolutely right."

Incidentally I notice your good friend Jay is offering a Consulting service on his site
Will you be schooling him in "pitfalls" :blush:with becoming a Hi End dealer?

Good listening,

Bruce
 
I strive to be one of the good customers. I cannot help that there are bad customers out there, but I can control how I interact with a luxury goods dealer.

I've been listening to speakers a couple of times in the past 6 weeks. I make an appointment. During the day / during the week. NOT on a Saturday. Sometimes that's the best thing I can do as a customer, I think; occupy the quiet times in the store.
 
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