Hegel - Made In China - Who Cares?

Mike

Audioshark
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I'm a big fan of Hegel products. I've owned two H30's and they performed WAY above their price point. Build quality was also rock solid. Sonically, they even had some die hard tube lovers smiling.

But there is a big flap going on over at Audiogon about the possibility (fact?) that Hegel products are made in China.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1440513789&openflup&105&4#105

I know Hegel owners are very happy with their products, but I'm curious, as someone who does not own a Hegel product and might be shopping for a new amp, new integrated, whatever, does "Made in China" bother you or is it a case of "who cares? I'm getting a great product at a great price!"?
 
It's hard to find anything in stores today that isn't made in China. One of the problems with Chinese manufacturing of audio gear is the counterfeit parts issue. I remember reading a story about a manufacturer who was having his stereo electronics manufactured in China. Apparently he wasn't the only customer of the company he was using to produce his gear. When he was having a production batch of his gear made, he would have to make them remove all electrical parts out of the production shop (resistors, caps, etc.) so he could bring his parts in. Otherwise, his expensive parts would disappear and counterfeit parts would be used in his gear and of course it wouldn't sound the way it was designed to sound. Just as a Chinese woman remarked on Master Chef that the only thing that has legs the Chinese won't eat is a table, there really is nothing of value that the Chinese won't counterfeit.

We will know that the Chinese have finally arrived as both a designer and manufacturer of high end goods when other Chinese companies start counterfeiting other Chinese goods.
 
Mike.......I imagine since the Chinese are past masters at counterfeiting, and those products are often inferior with high failure rates, the reputation that clings to the Made In China label is often viewed with suspicion, contempt, or disgust. There is no denying that manufacturing quality in China has improved dramatically in certain areas but certainly not all and not for a long enough period of time to erase from consumer's minds the stains of past or continuing deeds. Counterfeiting remains rampant, not only in finished products but also in component parts that are supplied to manufacturers all over the world. For some, trying to rise above this ingrained mindset is difficult, particularly older generations. As future progress is made I am certain the stigma associated with the Made In China label will disappear as it did for Japan. I am old enough to remember when Made in Japan was a symbol of cheap, poorly made junk merchandise. Now, Made In Japan is seen as a badge of distinction. Unfortunately, I think China has some distance to travel and time to pass before Made In China becomes a non-issue. It is happening slowly. For many it carries no negativity but for others Made In China still represents the lowest possible common denominator for value, seen as a last choice when no other options are available.

Labor conditions in China typify another set of issues some people have with Chinese made products. Child labor, forced labor, poor working conditions, forced factory living arrangements, questionably low pay, and other ugly conditions in the Chinese labor force leaves many with less than favorable views about products manufactured in China. Couple the notions of poor quality, the possibility of counterfeit components or parts, and questionable labor issues, it becomes more transparent why there are some who remain committed to avoiding goods labeled Made In China.

The attitudes of buyers do not go unnoticed by other manufacturers around the globe who use factories in China to manufacture parts or assemblies that are then shipped to the UK, Canada, the USA, Japan, and many other locations around the world for final assembly. These manufacturers will then silkscreen the rear aprons of gear with their logos and Made In USA, or Assembled In UK , Assembled In Canada, Assembled In Italy, etc. as a way of deferring attention from the fact that much, if not nearly all of a component's parts were actually Made In China. These same manufacturers want their reputations to go unspoiled and be supported as being known for building products in their local regions and factories. These same manufacturers are painfully aware of the continuing stigma many buyers place on products coming out of China. They wish to distance themselves whenever possible from the actual origin of parts and assemblies in their products.

After having seen and auditioned a number of audio products manufactured in China, I will admit that it has helped me adjust my preconceived attitude about low quality. A perfect example for me was removing the cover from the bottom of the PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium integrated amplifier I reviewed several years ago. I was astonished at the excellent craftsmanship and layout, attention to detail, and high quality parts used to assemble this audio component that wears the Made In China label. Sometimes one has to see it with their own eyes to become a believer.


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Beyond a simple awakening there is much to be done before the Made In China label approaches being considered a badge of honor. Progress is taking place, but the job is far from complete. Some people may never be convinced that great things are taking place in China, while others are able to shed past perceptions and prejudices to embrace the future. There will always be naysayers. It is the human condition.
 
Mike, you remarked recently about Classe as being great value, its been made in China for at least the last 5 years. in the '60s imports from Japan were similarly stigmatized, now look how far they've come...
 
Mike, you remarked recently about Classe as being great value, its been made in China for at least the last 5 years. in the '60s imports from Japan were similarly stigmatized, now look how far they've come...

Another excellent example.
 
Build aside most seem to have issue with made in china for 10K+, its going to take sometime before made in China and high prices becomes Meh, Just saying .......
 
There is also the distinct difference between (engineered/designed in X and built in China) vs (designed and built in China - like Psvane, Line Magnetic, etc.).
 
Yes , But now the consumer has to get into the made in Forensics mode to determine how much is made in China engineered elsewhere, Talking to JC, his JC1 is designed and engineered here but manufactured in Taiwan , Taiwan is considered in the Business to be upscale to being made in China..
 
Yes , But now the consumer has to get into the made in Forensics mode to determine how much is made in China engineered elsewhere, Talking to JC, his JC1 is designed and engineered here but manufactured in Taiwan , Taiwan is considered in the Business to be upscale to being made in China..

Taiwan was a former Japanese colony, many Japanese cos. have mfd electronics there for decades and their quality shows.
 
Made in China. People need to get over it as there is not a darn thing you can do about it short of starting your own business and manufacturing everything yourself from materials right there in the US. If you removed everything ( wire, screws, fasteners, electronic components, rubber, steel, fabric ) in your home and your car, boat, motorcycle, bike to name a few that is made in China or other little countries (Taiwan, Indonesia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand and Malaysia) and Japan and Mexico just think of what you have left.
 
I could write a book on the good and bad of Chinese manufacturing. You can find instances to support any position you wish to take, which is why it is impossible to paint what goes on there with broad brush strokes. As long as the American public is unwilling to pay a premium to retain jobs here is the US, companies will continue to move production or source from lower wage regions. In 50 years we will be left with lawyers who specializes in bringing cases seeking damages for personal injury and part time McDonald workers.

As far a Hegel goes. No matter where their product is manufactured it sounds pretty good. I can't say as much for its industrial design.
 
I'm not entirely sure about the H30, but the integrads are definitely made in China.

That actually came as a shock to me, as I believed they were made in Norway... But once the initial shock of knowing they're made in China subsidizes, it really makes sense, once you realize all that goes into that integrated, and how much they retail for.

Hegel is not all about that "pride of ownership", cutting edge looks, innovative industrial design. It's all about the sound, and value for money. And come to think of it, it's great that there are brands out there to fill that niche. If every high-end audio brand decided to charge a premium for gorgeous finish and design, we'd be screwed :)
 
As I research brands to carry, I look under the covers - sort of speak. I was unaware of the Made in China for Hegel, but my experiences have been all positive. In fact, the H4SE is supposed to be a real sleeper in the line up.
 
My stack is BMC (mono amps, DAC/Pre, transport). They are very open about the design being German, and the electronics German, with assembly (including case extrusion) being in China. The owner and designer, Carlos Candeias, is very engaged in the process. I feel the products live up to their price in quality and performance. I believe it depends on the product and company.
 
I would hazard a guess that a high end Chinese designer like Line Magnetic would be better able to control the quality of their Chinese manufacturing resources than would Hegel. Regarding whether Hegel being manufactured in China is a negative, let's ask it another way. Would a clear label stating Made in Norway be a positive?
 
My Lumin is designed and manufactured in China, and it seems fine My Aerial Acoustics 7T cabinets are made in Cihina, but the speaker is assembled here. In general I do not have a problem with made in China, but I have more respect for Pass, Magico, Shunyata, and others building products here, and paying living wages to their employees.

However until China stops government run hacking of American businesses, stops their rampant pollution, stops exporting poisoned baby powder and pet food, stops blowing up industrial areas by storing volatile chemicals, stops imprisioning political dissenters, stops censoring the Internet, and etc., etc., etc. I have no problem with trade sanctions against them, and forbidding the export of jobs to China.
 
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