Health, Wellness and Medicine

Probably what most people lack in a modern diet are the essentially fatty acid in non denaturated form, as well as some vitamin D3 in the Winter and (bioavailable) minerals (co-enzymes). Getting these regularly creates a virtual circle.
 
As Myles said, in developed countries diets don't really "lack" for anything. "Benefits" from supplements and/or dietary alterations tend to be few if any if actual scientific evidence is used as the criterion for benefit. Changing the amount and composition of dietary fat with resultant improvement in cardiovascular risk is one of the obvious exceptions; perhaps posters could chime in with more. We can easily fill this forum with anecdotes, and that is not necessarily bad, but in that case let's not make it sound like facts.
 
I am talking about food. Consuming denaturated fats and counting them as EFA is just wrong and you pay the health consequences.

Many are vit D deficient in the winter...go do a test and as for coenzymes, well you need to get them in bio-available forms so the Centrum type stuff is a waste of time. Try chelated or ionic. The cattle industry sure spends their money on Albion labs stuff, so there is a financial justification.
 
wisnon said:
I am talking about food. Consuming denaturated faats and counting them as EFA is just wrong and you pay the health consequences.

Many are vit D deficient in the winter...go do a test and as for coenzymes, well you need to get them in bio-available forms so the Centrum type stuff is a waste of time. Try chelated or ionic. The cattle industry sure spends their money on Albion labs stuff, so there is a financial justification.
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You know, this sounds nice and may have some truth to it; what actually is "vitamin D deficiency" is being re-evaluated, as are the possible health consequences. I think your statement (not the part about the cattle industry, though, that's certainly true) is largely wishful thinking and extrapolation.
 
Let me understand what you are saying, consuming denaturated EFAs is NOT harmful and there are no health consequences? Just what exactly do you describe as wishful thinking?

I dont deal with "sounds nice", I only care about results.
 
Well, what are these "denatured EFA's" that are being widely consumed, and what are the health consequences?
 
Come on, my wife has a recent MS in Nutrition, and I've been a physician for 35+ years. What you are saying is simply not accepted science. As I said, it's clear that vitamin D deficiency is about much more than rickets, but the disease spectrum and what constitutes deficiency is far from established. And as far as the health consequences of consuming denatured fatty acids and their prevalence in a typical diet, that is even farther from established.

But OTOH I'm very interested in knowing more about what you are saying and what actual research is being done.
 
rbbert said:
Come on, my wife has a recent MS in Nutrition, and I've been a physician for 35+ years. What you are saying is simply not accepted science. As I said, it's clear that vitamin D deficiency is about much more than rickets, but the disease spectrum and what constitutes deficiency is far from established. And as far as the health consequences of consuming denatured fatty acids and their prevalence in a typical diet, that is even farther from established.

But OTOH I'm very interested in knowing more about what you are saying and what actual research is being done.
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There have been many recent studies reporting the benefit of Vit. D on such things such as colo-rectal cancer.

Vitamin D & Colorectal Cancer

In the last few years, physicians have re-evaluated the data regarding what are considered adequate levels of Vitamin D. Pretty much anyone who lives in a northern environment and doesn't take Vit. D supplements is probably Vit. D deficient (and remember that milk, although supplemented, is actually a poor bioavailable source for Vit. D). Everyone should as a part of their regular annual physical have their Vit. D levels checked (a simple blood test).

There seems to be a bit of debate how much Vit. D one should take a day. Speakers at a recent symposium recommended adding anywhere from 2000-5000 IU of Vit. D a day for adequate levels. I was taking a high quality multi-vitamin with 1000 IU of Vit D and found myself deficient. I now take 5000 IU a day and my levels are normal.

Robert, I looked up what Wisnon is talking about and he is correct but we call them Omega 6s FA (as opposed to Omega 3s or 9s). Omega 6s are pro-oxidant and one working hypothesis is that imbalances in Omega 3/6 ratios lead to chronic inflammatory processes that in the end result in a slew of diseases like diabetes, cancer, arthritis, alzheimers, etc. (for instance, see that Harvard study that I referenced for oxidation status of different diets.) For instance, those who eat lots of fried foods made with say safflower oil have huge imbalances in the 6/3 ratios. On the other hand it seems that everyday doctors are revaluating the importance of LDL/HDL and the all the different subfractions and their impact upon heart disease.
 
If you guys want more, contact me via email…which you can get on a PM or even my US IP number, though I am in Europe.

I have first hand experience from informal protocols I gave to a pal (actual symptom/disease state reversals, my own multiple extensive/expensive blood work and hair analysis, references in the Lancet, AJM, NEJM, etc.)
The Nutrition field is VERY wide and a closed mind is unhelpful in these times.

One tip Robert, what do you think Transfat is? Oh, and BOTH Omega6 and 3 can be denatured. Omega 9 is NOT essential and the real good stuff is PARENT essential oils, not the derivatives and finally, ratios matter.

The Cholesterol brouhaha? Hahahaah, that is a real sham...
 
rbbert said:
Come on, my wife has a recent MS in Nutrition, and I've been a physician for 35+ years. What you are saying is simply not accepted science. As I said, it's clear that vitamin D deficiency is about much more than rickets, but the disease spectrum and what constitutes deficiency is far from established. And as far as the health consequences of consuming denatured fatty acids and their prevalence in a typical diet, that is even farther from established.

But OTOH I'm very interested in knowing more about what you are saying and what actual research is being done.
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Here is where we can agree with no problem. You have some lovely speaker there. LoL
 
Norman, for once, imo, you have something of value to add & you want to go offline & don't want to share it with the forum. Share your first hand knowledge with us. As you know the real secret is in the butter, thats where they lost the hdl. ;)
 
For once????

That says more about you than me! Heheheh

I go offline as the subjects are complex and very involved and cant be treated as frivolous quips. Way too serious for that, and for the record, I always share such info freely. There are at least 3 high end audio designers I have shared such info with on a relatively extensive basis and the coaches of 2 world famous athletes that most here have heard of. Not sure what they did with it though.

That reminds me, I have contact one of those audio guys for a long overdue meeting.
 
Myles, my wife is 1.70 high and used to weigh between 55 and 57 kg (depending on the season). When menopause hit her (we're in our early fifties) she got up to 73 kg. She tried several diets and the only result (except from some inconsequential weight loss) was irascibility, sleepiness and a total lack of appetite for sex. Lucky the transition period is over and she's again to 55 - 56 kg, although she's eating more than a construction worker (especially sweet food like candy, cakes and chocolate).
OTOH, I was always slim (except for a belly caused by a botched surgery, which left me with a severe case of eventration) and I seem to keep my weight no matter how much - or how little - I eat. I tried to gain weight by following a diet (complete with special supplements for bodybuilders) and all I gained was a lost of appetite for regular food.

BTW, I can stay without food for three days (no, no kidding) but I drink around 3+ liters of water daily. Also I can stay awake for 72 hours (I don't drink coffee) and sleep for several hours (my record is 21, followed by a meal and then another 10 hours of sleep). But I think everyone's metabolism is different...
 
Much of the world is ignorant of good health practices, and even in the developed world much of what little might be known is often ignored. Basic things (not a comprehensive list) like


No tobacco
Immunizations
Accident avoidance and mitigation (including things like seatbelts, good handwashing, safe sex, etc.)
Regular exercise (not to excess)
Limited consumption of animal products, especially farm-raised animals
Avoiding processed foods and “fast food”
Avoid over-eating or starvation
Limited alcohol consumption


Neither conventional nor alternative medicine offers treatments which really substitute for or substantially alter the effects of ignoring these things. In fact, in the US, most visits to a health care professional are for self-limited conditions. Even ignoring the widely publicized urgings to get treatment for things like high blood pressure and diabetes, our health care system is woefully underutilized (think immunizations) and often underfunded as well (think mental health).


Good genetics (of course the least predictable and least controllable of all) may be more important than anything listed. Mother Nature gets the last laugh, as usual.
 
rbbert said:
Much of the world is ignorant of good health practices, and even in the developed world much of what little might be known is often ignored. Basic things (not a comprehensive list) like


No tobacco
Immunizations
Accident avoidance and mitigation (including things like seatbelts, good handwashing, safe sex, etc.)
Regular exercise (not to excess)
Limited consumption of animal products, especially farm-raised animals
Avoiding processed foods and “fast food”
Avoid over-eating or starvation
Limited alcohol consumption


Neither conventional nor alternative medicine offers treatments which really substitute for or substantially alter the effects of ignoring these things. In fact, in the US, most visits to a health care professional are for self-limited conditions. Even ignoring the widely publicized urgings to get treatment for things like high blood pressure and diabetes, our health care system is woefully underutilized (think immunizations) and often underfunded as well (think mental health).


Good genetics (of course the least predictable and least controllable of all) may be more important than anything listed. Mother Nature gets the last laugh, as usual.
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Agreed.

That's why I piss in my pants when I go into my local health food store and someone is there agonizing over whether something is healthy to eat and they gotta be at least 50# overweight. Get your ass into the gym and forget about everything else! Exercise makes up for a variety of sins.

But again we know that knowledge doesn't change human behavior. The one thing though we're not doing is writing these people off now. Many of us are trying to use psychology to reach these people. After all, if we said 60% of the population had cancer, we'd have a new war on cancer. Yet 60% of Americans are obese and nothing is being done. The cost that this adds to health cares costs is unmeasurable. But we're not going to turn into a nanny state. No siree! Not us!

And genetics can not be underestimated as say inthe Askenazi Jewish studies at Albert Einstein Medical School. This population doesn't exercise, eat well or do anything else healthy and they live to be 100 years old. Turns out they have a particular mutation in a cholesterolase gene that seems to protect them. And of course everyone has read about telomeres, telomerase, aging and cancer too.
 
rbbert, there is a joke around here that I'll try to translate:

A middle age guy goes to the physician. After all tests and consulting are done, the MD says:
"You're quite OK for your age, but you should stop drinking, smoking, eating fatty meals and exaggerating with sex"
The patient asks: "Fine then, but will this make me live longer?"
To which the doctor answers: "Not really, but it will feel awfully long to you."

And a version: the MD says "...if you should stop drinking, smoking, eating fatty meals and exaggerating with sex you will live another two decades"
To which the patient answers: "Doctor, if I stop drinking, smoking, eating fatty meals and exaggerating with sex why the fuck would I want to live another two decades?"
 
iosiP said:
..."Doctor, if I stop drinking, smoking, eating fatty meals and exaggerating with sex why the fuck would I want to live another two decades?"
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If these are the only (or even the main) things that make life worth living then you have much bigger problems than any doctor can help with...
 
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