Headphone Evaluation

Eric,

many thanks for all this information. i had considered the Woo/Abyss too at one point, nice to hear that both the MSB/Stax and Woo/Abyss seem to be playing in the same neighborhood. i wonder how the new Stax flagship headphones might tip the scales?

the other thing is 'tubes'. they change, then change some more. get noisy. or you roll them here and there. one can view that as a positive or a negative. and then the whole form factor of the Woo compared to the MSB.

i guess we see in 6-12 months what is remaining in your system. and you likely will still have both.
 
Thank you Eric. Excellent reporting. Curious, are you using stock tubes. Some people swear by tubes others look for the negative. Woo has a reputation for improvements with different tubes. I have a few NOS tubes, and some newly manufactured tubes. There are many ways to improve the Woo, to accommodate moods, etc.
 
Randy Myers said:
Thank you Eric. Excellent reporting. Curious, are you using stock tubes. Some people swear by tubes others look for the negative. Woo has a reputation for improvements with different tubes. I have a few NOS tubes, and some newly manufactured tubes. There are many ways to improve the Woo, to accommodate moods, etc.
Click to expand...

Randy,

I have the stock tubes. I may start "rolling' at some point in time but right now I have too many other variables to address (cables, pre-amp, headphones).

Eric
 
Hey Eric,

I totally get that and I am not familiar with what Woo sends with the WA33. I know what they send with the WA22 are very basic tubes for the most part, and huge improvements were had by upgrading the tubes. Researching at Head-fi I read suggestions. Some made sense many were of course over the top. There is a dedicated Woo thread, and also one for the WA22. I have not checked but I assume there is also a dedicated thread for the WA33.

Usually a good set of NOS tubes can be had for between $50 - $150, and also some good new built tubes are in similar price ranges. I particularly like the Gold Lion and the Black Treasure tubes that are currently in production. A good NOS rectifier is not that expensive either... $100 range for a Mullard for example.

JAN Phillips are some good solid NOS tubes, RCA, GE, and Sylvania made certain highly regarded models. I also have always like CBS-Hytron NOS tubes, although they are starting to raise in price. Some of the ones that Woo sell are supposed to be very good, but they do sell them at a very premium price.

Anyway, if you like the Woo sound as it is, and I certainly can't blame you since I am thrill with their lower model WA22, my point being is you haven't heard nothin yet :). Get yourself a good set of replacement tubes and the Woo will improve dramatically! My second suggestion is to not buy tubes from Woo. They sell top shelf tubes but at way over the top pricing.

Cool little video from Abyss talking about the WA33 :):
ABYSS Top Of The Line videos | Page 9 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org
 
Cincy2 said:
I've spent a few hours with both the Abyss / Woo and Stax / MSB set ups and can now offer some thoughts. I am feeding the Woo with a balanced output from my Select II DAC. I ran a balanced cable set from the WA33 output to the MSB amp and ran it in PreAmp mode when listening to the MSB setup. The WA33 output was four pin balanced JPS upgrade cable to the Abyss 1266 headphones. The Stax had the factory electrostatic cable.
Click to expand...

Eric, re-reading your post this morning the comment underlined above jumps out. i wanted to make sure i'm clear about how this looks; are you saying while you were A/B'ing the MSB/Stax and Woo/Abyss that you ran the signal from the MSB dac, through the Woo, and back to the MSB amp then to the Stax?

MSB dac -> XLR cable -> Woo amp -> XLR cable -> MSB amp -> Stax 009S's. do i have this right?

i suppose your reason is to allow quicker A/B switching?

in my mind that is a handicap to the MSB amp and Stax. the synergy between the MSB dac and the MSB amp is not trivial, and you discard it in this approach......if i am properly understanding. you are adding an additional cable, plus the Woo circuit, to the signal the MSB amp sees. with the nuance and delicacy of the MSB/Stax this has to be audible. and that balanced cable from the Woo to the MSB amp could really make a huge difference. i know changing cables between my MSB dac and the MSB amp was huge. it's a spot where i plan on an upgrade at some point since it's clear it matters.

i do respect you are trying to level the playing field.......and if your long term plan is an easily switchable scenario then it is answering your question. yet it's not hearing the MSB Stax at it's best.
 
Randy, you really have me sold on Woo products. But I've spent enough money the last couple years that if I mentioned buying any other major components, at least for awhile, I'm liable to undergo involuntary castration.....without benefit of anesthesia (swallowing hard). I'll have to admit the wife has been pretty darn good about the money we've spent on high end audio.....to this point. But there is a limit. I reached it with my last purchase (Focal Stellia phones and NAIM Uniti Atom Headphone Edition headphone amp/music player/streamer/server). As for spending any more right now I'd have to echo the words of a former President....."Nut guh dut."
 
Hehe... not my intention... just making suggestions to Eric about his Woo :). You have a fine, and brand new setup. I would think you should be good for now :D. I certainly understand both wife factor (and her being incredibly understanding) and trying to keep things in check. Especially when considering the expenses of the new exotic kitten, and everything that goes along with her (she was my wife's birthday present to me).
 
Mike Lavigne said:
MSB dac -> XLR cable -> Woo amp -> XLR cable -> MSB amp -> Stax 009S's. do i have this right?

i suppose your reason is to allow quicker A/B switching?

in my mind that is a handicap to the MSB amp and Stax.
Click to expand...

Mike,

You are correct. I am currently using the Woo as a pre-amp between the Select II and the MSB headphone amp. This is an experiment and will likely change. My new preamp will have a pass through feature that will take it out of the loop.

Eric
 
Randy Myers said:
Hey Eric,

I totally get that and I am not familiar with what Woo sends with the WA33. I know what they send with the WA22 are very basic tubes for the most part, and huge improvements were had by upgrading the tubes. Researching at Head-fi I read suggestions. Some made sense many were of course over the top. There is a dedicated Woo thread, and also one for the WA22. I have not checked but I assume there is also a dedicated thread for the WA33.

Usually a good set of NOS tubes can be had for between $50 - $150, and also some good new built tubes are in similar price ranges. I particularly like the Gold Lion and the Black Treasure tubes that are currently in production. A good NOS rectifier is not that expensive either... $100 range for a Mullard for example.

JAN Phillips are some good solid NOS tubes, RCA, GE, and Sylvania made certain highly regarded models. I also have always like CBS-Hytron NOS tubes, although they are starting to raise in price. Some of the ones that Woo sell are supposed to be very good, but they do sell them at a very premium price.

Anyway, if you like the Woo sound as it is, and I certainly can't blame you since I am thrill with their lower model WA22, my point being is you haven't heard nothin yet :). Get yourself a good set of replacement tubes and the Woo will improve dramatically! My second suggestion is to not buy tubes from Woo. They sell top shelf tubes but at way over the top pricing.

Cool little video from Abyss talking about the WA33 :):
ABYSS Top Of The Line videos | Page 9 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tube advice Randy. I need it. This is my first tubed amp of any type in the 30 years I've been involved in audio.

Eric
 
I went through the same thing with a couple pieces some years ago. I am certainly no expert but have done some research and tried a few different tubes over the previous couple years. I currently have only two tube pieces; the Woo and the add on Tube Active Stage for my pre-amp :).

The guys on Head-Fi are pretty good with suggestions, although a few tend to go quite over the top.
 
Eric,

Real great writeups. I am catching up with your thread and enjoying your reviews very much. I recently got the ZMF vertie closed (olive LTD wood). It will sound warm when you first hear it, give your brain a day or two to adjust. I've grown to love it, after a couple of weeks befor I realized it "sunck on me" and my hands were reaching to it most of the time from my collection (as a reference for my taste, my favorite headphone is the Sony MDR-R10).

Nick,

I was a bit intrigued by your comment about a new wider/more cushioned headstrap coming in November. Can you share where yout got this info? I may try to chase that upgrade if I can. Many thanks :)

Eyal
 
10 days ago from Zach of Zmf. It is already designed but not available till November when his b stock sale is over. I asked if it will fit older models but did not get any answer. BTW how did you decide VC vs VO. I have always been a open guy plus the lighter the better as my scalp hates too much pressure.
 
Thanks Nick. I'll reach out to Zach and ask him about it!

I am myself more of an open-backed headphones guy (my favorite open is the Kennerton Thekk - for its gorgeous timbre).

I do have use cases for closed-back (some family ambient noise at some times of the day). When I bought the verite, I considered both the closed and open versions. I haven't had a chance to listen to both (afaik, unless you meet them at a canjam, there are no dealers in the US to demo from; I think outside of the US, they are puchased through local dealers). So I relied on reviewers suggestions that the were both very similar in profile, with some suggesting the closed may be preferrable, even for soundstage (bit unusual).

From experience, I can only comment about the verite closed (VC). It is very enjoyable. I spend much more time with it than I thought I would.

Build and comfort - Its passive isolation is excellent (ANC level). Build wise, it exudes high quality. And, you are right - they are heavier than average (varies by build; around 500-550g). If this is any comfort to you, I am sensitive to heavy weight, and in fact held back on this purchase for a year for this reason until I decided to gamble and order one. I can report that it is better than it sounds, with the weight distribtued well around head and ear cups. I did get the ZMF co-pilot headstrap pad (their currecnt headstrap is indeed mediocre and needed an extra cusion). I would summarize this as average comfort.

Music profile - For context, I am not a basshead and tend to like mids and highs; most of what I listen to is jazz, acoustics, and vocals (and any other high quality recordings of classic, pop, even country and rap music). With that, I found the headphones too warm and bass heavy first time I put them on. Within 1-2 days, as my brain got adjusted to their sound profile, this percetpion dissapeared. Also, ZMF explicitly states 200 hr burn it are required. It took over a week of ping noise to get there, so that could be part of the adjustment process. After that - I have since found the VC offer a very dynamic bass response - extremely fast attack and highly resolving. This is very stastifying, and I'd cautiously say that is the best bass I've heard on any headphone (including hifiman planars). Not a deep sub-bass rumble, or high on quantity; just great quality. Mids - very accurate tonal reproduction (as much as I can judge); great vocals. Treble - not shimmery or airy, but accurate. Overall feel is of sharpness and speed, coupled with a wamr and pleasant musicality. These aren't well-defined audiophile terms, just my layman attempts to convery a "feel" of how I am experiencing them. I hope this helps!

In summary - assuming you have at least 2-3 headphones in your collection, these would have a very welcome place in the mix. They have a unique profile that is distinct, versatile and enjoyable.

Eyal
 
thanks Eyal,
I will be using my Woo WA-6se-hopefully a good match for either VC or VO. I greatly appreciate the detailed summary. Often wonder why they don't burn them for us in advance.
 
My pleasure Nick.

Some cable manufacturers offer burn in as a device, indeed great idea for device manufacturers to do the same..

Most reports of VC/VO with tube amps are very favorable.
 
I just finished a few days with the ZMF Verite Closed Back phones in sapele wood. I really didn't have high expectations for these headphones. The DCA Stealth was a closed back model that really didn't compare with the open back planar magnetics I tried. The ZMF's surprised me in a very positive way. They had a very natural timber and almost as much detail as the Abyss 1266's. Percussive instruments were crisp with a fast attack and were placed accurately in the sound stage. Where they lost out to the Abyss was in the "airiness' of that soundstage. The ZMF's were wide like the 1266's but not as deep. The Abyss conveyed the impression of a larger acoustic space with each instrument appearing very detailed but separate from other. Going back and forth between the two on multiple tracks, I was drawn to the Abyss's presentation each time although the ZMF was pleasant and startling compared to other phones I've auditioned in my system (DCA Stealth, Audeze LCD 4z, Meze Empyrean, Sennheiser 650). Next up is the new Meze Elite which is supposed to ship to me tomorrow.

Eric
 
Awesome Eric. Was wondering what your impressions would be of the ZMF after some of the talk on here lately. Sounds like the Abyss held their own. It is a pleasure to see some one go through all of this high level equipment and do honest comparisons. It is something that is very rare, to say the least! Not something many of us could afford to do even if we had the inclination and stamina to do it :). Thank you sir, thank you!
 
The new Stax sr-x9000 electrostatic showed up today. Out of the box I was impressed with the material choices, the color (all black), the light weight and (drum roll please) separable cable! The price on this model went up from the SR-009 so some quality improvements were appropriate.

I already loved the SR-009 which proved a worthy adversary to the Abyss 1266. Comparing the 009 to the x9000 revealed that the improvements were not subtle. Everything you like about an e-stat headphone was there, just more. Better imaging, more air around those images, wider soundstage and some grit to strings and voices. This was most noticeable non acoustic music, not pop. Brushed cymbals still sizzle more than shimmer but they were still closer to optimum on the new Stax. All other percussive sounds had a faster attack than the 009. The details in treble and bass were the best I've heard in a headphone. I still have not done any regression testing with the Abyss phones but I'm sure this will be a tougher battle for the 1266's. To my ears, the new phones are a significant upgrade in my listening pleasure. I felt they were giving me everything the MSB amp has to give. One track from a Mapleshade disk by the Harry Schmidts (Gallows Pole) has a foot stomping far right in the stage. The gravitas of this stomp was improved over the 009 and to my amazement, was far forward of my ears. I have heard this effect only a few times with headphones. Love it.

There are indications that we are in for a golden age of headphones. As each new flagship is released by the major brands, and the price increases, more entrepreneurs will be enticed into the market. More reward incentivizes more risk. Unfortunately, headphone prices will continue to rise but if the quality of the sound keeps improving as it has recently, I think that's a fair trade-off. More audiophiles will migrate to headphones either as a secondary hobby or as a prime mode of listening as I did. Hang on for the ride.

Eric
 
Awesome Eric! It almost sounds like you have found the best of both camps now... MSB Headphone Amplifier (although I would love to know how the Blue Hawaii compares) with the new Stax SR-X9000 and the Woo WA33 Elite with the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC!!!

I am sure either combo is beyond amazing, and a very nice jump up from my Woo WA22 (2nd Gen) and Abyss Diana Phi.
 
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