Groove Note Reel to Reel

My copy of Jacintha Autumn Leaves has the following information on the cover - hand written on a Groove Note template.

Tape is marked Safety, not Master or Slave, Client Groove Note
Producer Joe Harley, engineer Michael C. Ross, Date 10/1999
Analogue, 15ips, Tape: BASF 900 Tracks 6 (same on each of the two tapes)
Machine ATR 100, Studio Cello, Tones at Head 1K

I can confirm that tape 1 has 1K tones at the head, tape 2 doesn't.
The tape reel itself (reel 1) is labelled Ampex 456 Grand Master. Tape 2 doesn't have the labels in front, but there is a code strip on the back (same as Tape 1) indicating 456. However, it is just a reel, so it could be a different tape.

No mention of what EQ is used.

I assumed it was CCIR, and it sounded fine with that EQ. I'll go back and play it NAB to see whether that is better.

Larry
 
astrotoy said:
My copy of Jacintha Autumn Leaves has the following information on the cover - hand written on a Groove Note template.

Tape is marked Safety, not Master or Slave, Client Groove Note
Producer Joe Harley, engineer Michael C. Ross, Date 10/1999
Analogue, 15ips, Tape: BASF 900 Tracks 6 (same on each of the two tapes)
Machine ATR 100, Studio Cello, Tones at Head 1K

I can confirm that tape 1 has 1K tones at the head, tape 2 doesn't.
The tape reel itself (reel 1) is labelled Ampex 456 Grand Master. Tape 2 doesn't have the labels in front, but there is a code strip on the back (same as Tape 1) indicating 456. However, it is just a reel, so it could be a different tape.

No mention of what EQ is used.

I assumed it was CCIR, and it sounded fine with that EQ. I'll go back and play it NAB to see whether that is better.

Larry
Click to expand...

Larry-It's definitely NAB. It will sound different with CCIR equalization.
 
Thanks, Mark. BTW, Mark gave me my first introduction into 2 track 15ips tape machines. Now, I am spending much more on one tape than I did on my first machine!

Larry
 
Thanks, Larry.
Well, that's more information than what is frequently provided (#21). :scholar:
BASF 900 -- good tape :congrats:
 
Hello all: I want to clarify some things being said in this stream that are not correct. My production master referred to here is NOT an NAB or IEC- it is a real master at 30ips. It is generic in this state and can be transformed to NAB or IEC. My production master Jonathan used to create my 15ips that Myles Astor now has was created by Jonathan for the RMAF show and was set to IEC per Jonathan's suggestion to me since I already have a NAB version at 15ips that Bernie did for me and used at the CA Audio Show.
Hope this clears confusion and sets things straight.
Lyn Stanley

P.S. I am responding to this post by Myles:

Not exactly sure but suspect tapes were recorded NAB and Bernie kept them NAB. Am just bringing home a copy of Lyn Stanley's latest recording on tape. Was done by Al Schmitt at Capitol obviously in NAB; Bernie made a copy of the production master in NAB too. Jonathan Horwich is doing the consumer copies and he is changing it from NAB to IEC via a via Lyn's instructions. Not sure if I would or problems entailed.[/QUOTE]
 
Hi Lyn - welcome to AS! Good seeing you at RMAF last week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LynStanley said:
Hello all: I want to clarify some things being said in this stream that are not correct. My production master referred to here is NOT an NAB or IEC- it is a real master at 30ips. It is generic in this state and can be transformed to NAB or IEC. My production master Jonathan used to create my 15ips that Myles Astor now has was created by Jonathan for the RMAF show and was set to IEC per Jonathan's suggestion to me since I already have a NAB version at 15ips that Bernie did for me and used at the CA Audio Show.
Hope this clears confusion and sets things straight.
Lyn Stanley

P.S. I am responding to this post by Myles:

Not exactly sure but suspect tapes were recorded NAB and Bernie kept them NAB. Am just bringing home a copy of Lyn Stanley's latest recording on tape. Was done by Al Schmitt at Capitol obviously in NAB; Bernie made a copy of the production master in NAB too. Jonathan Horwich is doing the consumer copies and he is changing it from NAB to IEC via a via Lyn's instructions. Not sure if I would or problems entailed.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the above statement. All recordings regardless of speed are recorded with an equalization curve.
 
LynStanley said:
Hello all: I want to clarify some things being said in this stream that are not correct. My production master referred to here is NOT an NAB or IEC- it is a real master at 30ips. It is generic in this state and can be transformed to NAB or IEC. My production master Jonathan used to create my 15ips that Myles Astor now has was created by Jonathan for the RMAF show and was set to IEC per Jonathan's suggestion to me since I already have a NAB version at 15ips that Bernie did for me and used at the CA Audio Show.
Hope this clears confusion and sets things straight.
Lyn Stanley

P.S. I am responding to this post by Myles:

Not exactly sure but suspect tapes were recorded NAB and Bernie kept them NAB. Am just bringing home a copy of Lyn Stanley's latest recording on tape. Was done by Al Schmitt at Capitol obviously in NAB; Bernie made a copy of the production master in NAB too. Jonathan Horwich is doing the consumer copies and he is changing it from NAB to IEC via a via Lyn's instructions. Not sure if I would or problems entailed.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

Thanks Lyn, Jonathan sent me a note earlier.

Myles
 
mep said:
I don't understand the above statement. All recordings regardless of speed are recorded with an equalization curve.
Click to expand...

I think what Lyn meant and Jonathan clarified is that the master tape is 30 ips and has its own EQ curve. To wit from Jonathan,

"For the record the 1/2" production master she sent me was 30ips which as you know is its own standard, not NAB or IEC. And by the way they sounded very good. "

When Jonathan made the consumer copies such as the one I have, he used IEC EQ. That's where the confusion occurred at RMAF eg. the other tape Lyn had was NAB EQ.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
I think what Lyn meant and Jonathan clarified is that the master tape is 30 ips and has its own EQ curve. When he made the copies such as the one I have, he used IEC EQ. That's where the confusion occurred at RMAF eg. the other tape Lyn had was NAB.
Click to expand...

What EQ curve exists outside of NAB and IEC for professional recording?
 
I am not an engineer, but I have asked this question about production masters from both Jonathan Horwich AND Bernie Grundman. The point made here is "30ips production master"is a base that is not tied to NAB or IEC formats. I have asked Jonathan to join this discussion. I am an Artist. He is more qualified to answer questions.
 
LynStanley said:
I am not an engineer, but I have asked this question about production masters from both Jonathan Horwich AND Bernie Grundman. The point made here is "30ips production master"is a base that is not tied to NAB or IEC formats. I have asked Jonathan to join this discussion. I am an Artist. He is more qualified to answer questions.
Click to expand...

Lyn the above link answers the question Mark raised.
 
Ok. Guess the bottom line is my new album Potions [from the 50s] sounds amazing on tape (by all accounts at the show.). Recording in analog tape gave me many options! Thanks for all the help guys in figuring this all out. I still will discuss with Bernie tomorrow though.. He is my best teacher!
Lyn
 
Hi All,

Should anyone be interested (insufficient posts to create link) --

From Jay McKnight...this excerpt:

1.2.3 Equalization Standard: For technical reasons, the signal
recorded on the tape — the magnetic flux — does not inherently have
a “flat” frequency response. For optimum dynamic range in recording,
the recorded flux is “equalized” so that it decreases with increasing
frequency in a standardized way. Therefore reproducers must have a
response that increases with increasing frequency in a standardized
complementary way, so that the reproduced electrical output signal
will be flat with frequency. Sometimes there is also a standardized
low-frequency boost in recording and complementary cut in
reproduction.

This standardized response of the tape flux — the “equalization”
— is commonly identified by the initials of the organization that wrote
the tape recording standard:

IEC the International Electrotechnical Commission [7] (now also
called IEC1 equalization)

NAB the US National Association of Broadcasters (now also called
IEC2 equalization)

AES the Audio Engineering Society [11] (only for 30 in/s; now also
called IEC2 equalization)

CCIR French for International Radio Consultative Committee.

CCIR turned over their tape recording standards writing to the IEC in
1970. The IEC1 at 7.5 and IEC1 at 15 in/s (which are the only
speeds CCIR now recognizes) have always been identical to the
original CCIR equalizations — only the administering organization
has changed.

Around 1993 the name of the CCIR was
changed to ITU-R, International Telecommunication Union —
Radiocommunications.

DIN German for German Industrial Standard, which is identical to
IEC1 for Studio use, and IEC2 for Home use.

The equalizations at 3.75 in/s and 30 in/s really are standard —
one equalization is now used everywhere for each of these speeds.

At 3.75 in/s the only equalization used for new recordings since
1968 is identified as NAB and IEC.

At 30 in/s the only equalization now used for new recordings since
the mid-1950s is identified as AES [11] and IEC2.

Note that there is not now, and never was, an NAB
standard for 30 in/s. Some machine manufacturers
erroneously put “30 in/s NAB” on their equipment.
We don’t know what equalization they were actually
using.

Note also that altho the current IEC standard
includes an IEC1 (= DIN = obsolete CCIR) for 30
in/s, it is only for reproducing historical mono
recordings made in Europe on ¼ inch tape before
1955: it is never used for new recordings.

At 7.5 in/s two equalizations are used, but the usage is fairly
uniform:
NAB = IEC2 is mostly used in US; and
IEC = IEC1 (= CCIR = DIN Studio) is mostly used in Europe.

At 15 in/s — the most commonly used professional speed — the
equalizations are the most confusing:
8-track recorders on ½ inch tape, and 16- and 24-track recorders
on 1 inch tape almost always use IEC = IEC1;
for all other widths and track configurations,
NAB = IEC2 is mostly used in US, and
IEC = IEC1 (= CCIR = DIN Studio) is mostly used in Europe

Hehe, :ninja:
 
Thanks Myles, I learned something new. I knew that there had to be some type of EQ curve, I didn't know that 30 ips had it's own special curve.
 
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