Going a Roon One More Time

I recently started playing around with Roon's up sampling capabilities. It works flawlessly in my system. It's also extremely easy to turn on and off for comparisons. It seems to work pretty good and what I have heard, other than a couple extra filters, there may be no reason to use HQ Player any more with Roon!

All I know is that a well conceived and properly built dedicated PC (higher performance preferred) connected through USB to a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery and then to my DAC does an amazing job. And you cannot beat Roon for ease of use, control, sound quality, etc., to play back your digital files!!!
 
Nikhil said:
An unexpected bonus - Roon sniffed out my AppleTVs and within a few clicks I was streaming music to my bedroom.
This is something I wasn't aware of but thanks to the slick network software it just works seamlessly.

The sound quality is not that bad at all for casual listening. I like that Roon has built in a robust network architecture.
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Yes, I think they added it since 1.3. I also see it popping up in the audio settings tab but have never used it though. Roon is slowly getting into their mission in a great way - ease of use, multi zones, fabulous UI and excellent sound quality (even when up-sampling). I am glad that I had invested in it.
 
I'm running Roon and the Lumin app from a ssd drive on my Qnap TVS 471 NAS with 16 gb memory to my Lumin U1 with TP-link media converters between the NAS and the U1 and the sound seems great with no drop outs. It moves 6.5 tb of files quickly. I would like to get hq player in the chainm somewhere for the Roon .... Any ideas ?
 
RichardA1 said:
I'm running Roon and the Lumin app from a ssd drive on my Qnap TVS 471 NAS with 16 gb memory to my Lumin U1 with TP-link media converters between the NAS and the U1 and the sound seems great with no drop outs. It moves 6.5 tb of files quickly. I would like to get hq player in the chainm somewhere for the Roon .... Any ideas ?
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What does Roon lack so that you need Hqp in the chain ?

AFAIK, Lumin U1 can't run Hqp NAD.
 
Randy Myers said:
I recently started playing around with Roon's up sampling capabilities. It works flawlessly in my system. It's also extremely easy to turn on and off for comparisons. It seems to work pretty good and what I have heard, other than a couple extra filters, there may be no reason to use HQ Player any more with Roon!
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I have been using Roon up-sampling for sometime now with ROCK and it sounds great...at least I don't see a reason to use Hqp in my system.
 
Same... at one point I thought I might need HQ Player, but now no. Roon does a great job all by itself. Roon, expensive, maybe, but pretty amazing software that keeps getting better and better... very happy that I bought my lifetime subscription!
 
What does Roon lack so that you need Hqp in the chain ?
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Nothing that I can tell but maybe someone uses hqp upstream between a NAS and music server and has more information, hqp experience or another idea.
 
RichardA1 said:
Nothing that I can tell but maybe someone uses hqp upstream between a NAS and music server and has more information, hqp experience or another idea.
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I have extensively used Hqp before. Unless you are up-sampling and needs a specific filter/modulator to match your Dac and liking, I don't see a reason to use Hqp. But if you are bent on trying it, you need a computer and you can't use U1 in the chain. Loosing the U1 to use Hqp (with a computer) will be the biggest bottleneck for declining sound quality...
 
RichardA1 said:
I'm running Roon and the Lumin app from a ssd drive on my Qnap TVS 471 NAS with 16 gb memory to my Lumin U1 with TP-link media converters between the NAS and the U1 and the sound seems great with no drop outs. It moves 6.5 tb of files quickly. I would like to get hq player in the chainm somewhere for the Roon .... Any ideas ?
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Richard,

HQPlayer needs pretty decent processing power - specially for DSD.
What processor do you have on the QNAP TVS 471? Standard config is Core i3 I think.

Upgrading your processor to a Core i7 will be an option you can look at.
Install Roon Core + Output and HQPlayer and you should be good to go.
Just for sake of completeness - Roon recommends a decent size SSD depending on the size of your media collection

You have a great setup - Roon filters are pretty good but your gear has the resolution to hear the benefits of the HQP filters.

Regards
 
Just in case...
Roon Labs has excellent forums/community. Reading the forums Anyone should be able to find answers to any questions regarding Roon, hardware requirements, HQP/Roon set ups (the developer of HQP contributes a lot).
 
I have been doing some comparisons with Roon up sampling turned on and off. It is so easy to enable and disable that comparisons are a breeze. First off I got to say I am a Roon lover... the only way you could get it away from me is to pry my tablet out of my cold dead hands....

But, I like the sound a lot better without up sampling, and I am a huge DSD fan. I compared DSD64 up sampled to DSD256 and 192 kHz files up sampled to DSD256. In every case the original had a tighter, fuller, and more robust button end. Also vocals and high frequencies were more open and airy.

It may very well be my DAC or filtering being applied :bonkers:... but DSD256 albums that I have sound amazing... so some how up sampling does not work as well for me...
 
Randy Myers said:
But, I like the sound a lot better without up sampling, and I am a huge DSD fan. I compared DSD64 up sampled to DSD256 and 192 kHz files up sampled to DSD256. In every case the original had a tighter, fuller, and more robust button end. Also vocals and high frequencies were more open and airy.
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HQPlayer will give you more of what you are missing particularly the air, but in all honesty after you listen to pcm content for years, pcm converted to DSD can sound soft, lose some of the punch, air and bottom end authority. It takes the typical digital edge off. In a brighter less forgiving system it probably works very well.

Right now I'm doing pcm to pcm upsampling in hq player with DSD being left alone.
 
Randy Myers said:
I compared DSD64 up sampled to DSD256 and 192 kHz files up sampled to DSD256. In every case the original had a tighter, fuller, and more robust button end. Also vocals and high frequencies were more open and airy.
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Please confirm that you have enabled Native DSD Processing, chosen 7th order CLANS, and tried Smooth/Precise Minimum/Linear Phase. Thanks.
 
Here are my settings:

Sample Rate Conversion: DSD
DSD Sample Rate: DSD256
Sample Rate Conversion Filter: Smooth, Linear Phase
Sigma Delta Modulator: 7th Order (CLANS)
Enable Native DSD Processing: Yes

It all plays just fine and shows that it is up sampling to DSD both in the Roon information and on my DAC. It just does not sound as good to me when I enable DSP Processing versus when I disable it and play the files without up sampling. Granted, I only did a small sampling of a few albums, both DSD64 and PCM files; however the results were consistent.

I am a huge Roon supporter and a DSD fan. Remember I have 10 albums that are recorded in DSD256, and they sound fantastic. They would not be able to play if I were not using Native DSD drivers. DoP can only play up to DSD128.

Obviously it could very well be how filtering in handled within my DAC... this I do not know. The DAC I have is a new Wyred 4 Sound top of the line model using the brand new ESS 9038 Pro chip and a Femto clock. I have it set at fixed outputs, and it is running fully Balanced to the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE preamplifier using Wireworld XLR cables. I am using a Wireworld USB cable out of my music server into a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery and another Wireworld USB cable into the DAC.

I am then running Wyred 4 Sound XLR cables out of the preamplifier into the Audio Research amplifier and then Kimber Kable speaker wires on to my MC speakers. I also have fairly long Audioquest RCA cables running out of the preamplifier to the KEF subwoofer.

I have listed my setup so you can see the entire chain if for any reason you see a point of issue.
 
Randy Myers said:
Here are my settings:

Sample Rate Conversion: DSD
DSD Sample Rate: DSD256
Sample Rate Conversion Filter: Smooth, Linear Phase
Sigma Delta Modulator: 7th Order (CLANS)
Enable Native DSD Processing: Yes

It all plays just fine and shows that it is up sampling to DSD both in the Roon information and on my DAC. It just does not sound as good to me when I enable DSP Processing versus when I disable it and play the files without up sampling. Granted, I only did a small sampling of a few albums, both DSD64 and PCM files; however the results were consistent.

I am a huge Roon supporter and a DSD fan. Remember I have 10 albums that are recorded in DSD256, and they sound fantastic. They would not be able to play if I were not using Native DSD drivers. DoP can only play up to DSD128.

Obviously it could very well be how filtering in handled within my DAC... this I do not know. The DAC I have is a new Wyred 4 Sound top of the line model using the brand new ESS 9038 Pro chip and a Femto clock. I have it set at fixed outputs, and it is running fully Balanced to the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE preamplifier using Wireworld XLR cables. I am using a Wireworld USB cable out of my music server into a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery and another Wireworld USB cable into the DAC.

I am then running Wyred 4 Sound XLR cables out of the preamplifier into the Audio Research amplifier and then Kimber Kable speaker wires on to my MC speakers. I also have fairly long Audioquest RCA cables running out of the preamplifier to the KEF subwoofer.

I have listed my setup so you can see the entire chain if for any reason you see a point of issue.
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Randy since your close, I say give EJ a shoot out. He could be of help after all, its his dac. .
 
Hey Chris, I might talk to him about it, but honestly, there is no "issue" with the DAC. In other words, DSD256 sounds fantastic as does DSD64, DSD128, and all levels of PCM files. The only "issue" is that Roon up sampling does not sound as good to me as non-up sampled files. So the filtering used in Roon when up sampling may not be playing nice with the DAC? Not sure on this, and honestly the up sampling does sound good, just not as good as when up sampling is deactivated. Roon allows for this very quick on/off comparison, which is fantastic.
 
Randy Myers said:
Here are my settings:

Sample Rate Conversion: DSD
DSD Sample Rate: DSD256
Sample Rate Conversion Filter: Smooth, Linear Phase
Sigma Delta Modulator: 7th Order (CLANS)
Enable Native DSD Processing: Yes
Click to expand...

Sorry Randy, I assumed you tried all the combinations not just my favorite.

Try the precise filters. They have less top end roll off.
Also try the minimum phase variant of the precise filter, it will have better transient response and attack. There is a very good chance your DAC has some variation of a minimum phase phase implemented internally.
DSD5 CLANS will be a little less thick sounding, you could also try it.

Finally also try all the above filter combinations but just upsample pcm to 352.8/384 depending on source format multiple of base 44.1 or 48. Just upconverting to pcm can take the edge off but leave all the PCMness you like from your source.
 
I will try some of the variances. I know I tried one but cannot remember which one :).... it is very easy to try different filters within Roon, so easy to try and compare.
 
5th Order (CLANS) and smooth, minimal phase seems to work much better. Going to role with it for a bit.
 
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