GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter

[Puma Cat]

Has anyone auditioned and made a comparison between the Gigafoil and an Uptone audio etherREGEN?

I don't know of any direct comparison that's been done, but bear in mind that the GigaFoil is effectively a specialized filter (IIRC, its fiber media convertor) to remove EMI/RFI from copper Ethernet, and the EtherREGEN is an Ethernet switch.

If you want to do a comparison, a better comparison would be between the Gigafoil and the Sonore OpticalModule.

 

[jadedavid]

I don't know of any direct comparison that's been done, but bear in mind that the GigaFoil is effectively a specialized filter (IIRC, its fiber media convertor) to remove EMI/RFI from copper Ethernet, and the EtherREGEN is an Ethernet switch.

If you want to do a comparison, a better comparison would be between the Gigafoil and the Sonore OpticalModule.

Thanks for the distinction. I thought that the ER was also a filter of sorts.

 

[Puma Cat]

Thanks for the distinction. I thought that the ER was also a filter of sorts.

The ER is an Ethernet switch. If you use it in conjunction with a an SFP optical transceiver, it will support receiving upstream data via optical fiber rather than copper Ethernet. If send you data from your music server via an upstream FMC downstream to the SFP optical transceiver in ER, then it will function in the same manner as a GigaFoil because RFI/EMI cannot pass down fiber. The key is you need an "upstream" FMC to convert signals on copper Ethernet used by your upstream networking devices and music server to optical signals. This is why I specifically recommended the Sonore OpticalModule.

So a path might look like this: Music Server ->copper Ethernet->Router->copper Ethernet->Sonore OpticalModule->FIBER->SFP transceiver in ER-> copper Ethernet -> Endpoint/streamer/Network bridge->USB or S/PDIF to DAC.

 

[jadedavid]

The ER is an Ethernet switch. If you use it in conjunction with a an SFP optical transceiver, it will support receiving upstream data via optical fiber rather than copper Ethernet. If send you data from your music server via an upstream FMC downstream to the SFP optical transceiver in ER, then it will function in the same manner as a GigaFoil because RFI/EMI cannot pass down fiber. The key is you need an "upstream" FMC to convert signals on copper Ethernet used by your upstream networking devices and music server to optical signals. This is why I specifically recommended the Sonore OpticalModule.

So a path might look like this: Music Server ->copper Ethernet->Router->copper Ethernet->Sonore OpticalModule->FIBER->SFP transceiver in ER-> copper Ethernet -> Endpoint/streamer/Network bridge->USB or S/PDIF to DAC.

OMG, thanks for the detailed response.
I think I will just stay in the shallow end of the pool and let my Lumin do all of the heavy lifting.
I'm so grateful that the Lumin is so easy and un-complicated. It just works and sounds good.

 

[kzhtoo]

OMG, thanks for the detailed response.
I think I will just stay in the shallow end of the pool and let my Lumin do all of the heavy lifting.
I'm so grateful that the Lumin is so easy and un-complicated. It just works and sounds good.

There’s a possibility Lumin could also benefit from GF and/or ER. People use GF or ER to reduce noise on Ethernet streams. Lumin is a network streamer. They are not mutually exclusive.

IME, using ER and GF in series yields the most benefit.

 

[soundORK]

I added the Keces P3 power supply to my Gigafoil...I can say absolutely unequivocally that I heard absolutely ZERO difference between the Keces and stock power supply. I was thinking it was maybe I have rung every last drop out of my system, but the Gigafoil made a remarkable difference and I recently added a Revelation Audio Labs Ethernet cable which also made a difference so I don't believe that is the case. I also wasn't really impressed with the build quality of the Keces. Just a bunch of stamped aluminum screwed together.

My opinion is, don't waste money on the Keces, stock supply is fine. Spend your money elsewhere.

 

[Billt1]

I added the Keces P3 power supply to my Gigafoil...I can say absolutely unequivocally that I heard absolutely ZERO difference between the Keces and stock power supply. I was thinking it was maybe I have rung every last drop out of my system, but the Gigafoil made a remarkable difference and I recently added a Revelation Audio Labs Ethernet cable which also made a difference so I don't believe that is the case. I also wasn't really impressed with the build quality of the Keces. Just a bunch of stamped aluminum screwed together.

My opinion is, don't waste money on the Keces, stock supply is fine. Spend your money elsewhere.

as the old saying goes " your experience may vary"

After buying my first MSB DAC their national sales manager recommended I try the Gigafoil. I thought it won't offer much in the way of improvement but he had never steered me wrong .The results were so obvious I bought another one for my second system. Vince also recommend that even just stepping up to the $49 Ifi power supply for it would pay dividends. The Gigafoil being in place for weeks I put the Ifi in. My wife not knowing that I made any changes walked into the room and immediately asked me if I had done something. She would not believe me when I said the improvement only cost us $50. I bought a second Ifi power supply

 

[soundORK]

as the old saying goes " your experience may vary"

After buying my first MSB DAC their national sales manager recommended I try the Gigafoil. I thought it won't offer much in the way of improvement but he had never steered me wrong .The results were so obvious I bought another one for my second system. Vince also recommend that even just stepping up to the $49 Ifi power supply for it would pay dividends. The Gigafoil being in place for weeks I put the Ifi in. My wife not knowing that I made any changes walked into the room and immediately asked me if I had done something. She would not believe me when I said the improvement only cost us $50. I bought a second Ifi power supply

Thats great! I have the IFI power supplies on my Switches I will give them a try and report back. Could it be what she was hearing was the Gigafoil or a new recording? Honestly I listened for a while with the new power supply and heard zip, nothing at all, sounded the same, and I always make my changes one at a time and spend time with each so I understand what it is doing, or not doing.

I also have an MSB DAC on my primary reference system, Vince is great with recommendations. I use the PROUSB there not the renderer. My second system where the gigafoil is located is almost as revealing, VTL Tube amp, Rockna DAC, Bricasti renderer. I can honestly say Keces made almost zero difference, like I said maybe it's my system, but I highly doubt the IFI would better the Keces just given the size of the Toroid in the Keces.

 

[Billt1]

Thats great! I have the IFI power supplies on my Switches I will give them a try and report back. Could it be what she was hearing was the Gigafoil or a new recording? Honestly I listened for a while with the new power supply and heard zip, nothing at all, sounded the same, and I always make my changes one at a time and spend time with each so I understand what it is doing, or not doing.

I also have an MSB DAC on my primary reference system, Vince is great with recommendations. I use the PROUSB there not the renderer. My second system where the gigafoil is located is almost as revealing, VTL Tube amp, Rockna DAC, Bricasti renderer. I can honestly say Keces made almost zero difference, like I said maybe it's my system, but I highly doubt the IFI would better the Keces just given the size of the Toroid in the Keces.

Everything but the power supply was the same., the Gigafoil had been in place weeks. My wife was a music major at " The King's University" Thailand. Part of the entrance exam was a hearing test. I trust hers more than mine. It would make sense if the Keces was better given the price differential but I've never tried it. Conversely I've tried a few different ethernet cables and haven't heard a difference. Not saying at some point I won't find the one that does.

 

[soundORK]

Everything but the power supply was the same., the Gigafoil had been in place weeks. My wife was a music major at " The King's University" Thailand. Part of the entrance exam was a hearing test. I trust hers more than mine. It would make sense if the Keces was better given the price differential but I've never tried it. Conversely I've tried a few different ethernet cables and haven't heard a difference. Not saying at some point I won't find the one that does.

Which ethernet cables have you tried?

My general experience with Power Supplies is they make all the difference, in this case I heard nothing which was hard for me to believe.

 

[still-one]

I don't know of any direct comparison that's been done, but bear in mind that the GigaFoil is effectively a specialized filter (IIRC, its fiber media convertor) to remove EMI/RFI from copper Ethernet, and the EtherREGEN is an Ethernet switch.

If you want to do a comparison, a better comparison would be between the Gigafoil and the Sonore OpticalModule.

As I have noted in the past I could never get the GigaFoil and Keces to work without dropouts in “my” setup. I was able to return them and ended up replacing them with a optical module from SGC. My setup has been rock solid ever since. I can’t say whether there are and SQ advantages or that it even sounds as good as the GigaFoil, I just enjoy rock solid Roon.

 

[vert]

I added the Keces P3 power supply to my Gigafoil...I can say absolutely unequivocally that I heard absolutely ZERO difference between the Keces and stock power supply. I was thinking it was maybe I have rung every last drop out of my system, but the Gigafoil made a remarkable difference and I recently added a Revelation Audio Labs Ethernet cable which also made a difference so I don't believe that is the case. I also wasn't really impressed with the build quality of the Keces. Just a bunch of stamped aluminum screwed together.

My opinion is, don't waste money on the Keces, stock supply is fine. Spend your money elsewhere.

I tried the stock power supply into a noisy wall outlet. It was awful. I wouldn't recommend anyone use it that way.

But once I powered the Gigafoil with a good power supply and made sure I wasn't injecting noise into via the power line, it was an astounding upgrade.

 

[my2sons52]

Has anyone tired the JCAT M12 Gold Switch? If so please let me know your thoughts.

 

[vert]

I use Gigafoil with Uptone JS-2 with upgraded DC and ethernet cables, and I view it as a bonafide audiophile bargain for streaming.

It does need to be plugged into good power conditioning. And it will scale to how good the power supply and power conditioning is.

Audiophile switches and ethernet filters have come and gone over the years, and Gigafoil is still here.

 

[Ctsooner]

I use Gigafoil with Uptone JS-2 with upgraded DC and ethernet cables, and I view it as a bonafide audiophile bargain for streaming.

It does need to be plugged into good power conditioning. And it will scale to how good the power supply and power conditioning is.

Audiophile switches and ethernet filters have come and gone over the years, and Gigafoil is still here.

Great thread still. I’m looking into the Gigafoil for my Brinkmann Nyquist mk2. I love the internal streamer, but I also own The Memory Player by Laufer and love their software. Sam constantly keeps it updated. I’ve used some optical converters over the years and love them but hated the mess. I’m think8 g strongly of getting this one and calling it a day. I have an LPS I can use already. I have spoke. To a few who had the gigafoil and swear by it.

 

[jaynyc]

Ok, so I am curious, it’s June 2023. Has there been another *powered* product like the Gigafoil released by any other manufacturer?

My understanding of the Gigafoil, perhaps wrong, is that the Gigafoil is essentially 2 FMCs in 1 box, and by converting from Ethernet to fiber back to Ethernet, assuming a quality LPS, there is little or no electrical noise conveyed to the destination device.

 

[Puma Cat]

Ok, so I am curious, it’s June 2023. Has there been another *powered* product like the Gigafoil released by any other manufacturer?

Sure. Sonore Optical Module Deluxe.
Sonore - opticalModule Deluxe

My understanding of the Gigafoil, perhaps wrong, is that the Gigafoil is essentially 2 FMCs in 1 box, and by converting from Ethernet to fiber back to Ethernet, assuming a quality LPS, there is little or no electrical noise conveyed to the destination device.

Yep! That is all it is doing. There's nothing "magical" going on here.

What it's "isolating", in addition to EMI/RFI, is low- and high-source impedance leakage current (which a type of AC). Leakage current causes threshold jitter. Threshold jitter impacts...timing. We hear the impact on timing, just as we do when we install a really good Master Clock.

Read this white paper by Sonore and UpTone Audio and former professional Ethernet engineer, John Swenson. He discusses threshold jitter and the imact on timing. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

TBH, I don't know understand how it would be better than using a couple Sonore OpticalModule Deluxes or say, an OpticalModule Deluxe at the upstream end and say, an EtherREGEN, SOtM switch or Lumin U2, P1, L2, or X1 that supports optical input at the destination end.

From what I gather, FOIL is an acyronym for Fiber Optic Isolation Link

 

[Ctsooner]

Great stuff guys and thanks. I wish i could get the Gigafoil and Sonore Optical Module in to audition. Hate just buying to buy.

 

[Puma Cat]

Oh, you don't need to buy those just to audition the benefits of fiber.

You can buy a couple TP-link LC/LC FMCs (fiber media convertors), two 850nM SFP multi-mode optical tranceivers (SFPs), a run of fiber, and a couple Jameco wall-wart LPSs, and give it a try for yourself.

Here's a BOM (Bill of Materials) for you:
2 x TP-link MC220L Gigabit FMC, 9 volt: TP-Link MC220L - fiber media converter - GigE - MC220L - Transceiver Modules - CDW.com $23/ea
2 x 10Gtek Multi-mode SFP: For Ubiquiti UniFi UF-MM-1G SFP Transceiver 1000Base-SX 850nm MMF 500m | eBay $11/ea
2 x Jameco Reliapro Linear Wall Adapter 9 Volt, 1200mA: Jameco $10.75/ea
10M* of Tripp-Lite Multimode 62.5/125 LC/LC fiber: 10m, LC to LC, Duplex, Multimode 62.5 Fiber Optic Patch Cable | Fibertronics, Inc. $13.99

Total cost: $113.49.

This set-up will work surprisingly well, and you can hear first-hand the benefits of a run of fiber from the music server computer to the network bridge or streamer.

Here's an example set-up diagram using the "generic" TP-link type FMCs:

If you like that set-up, you can upgrade the downstream FMC with a Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe, which has a much better parts, RJ45 port, and clocks.

*-length can be whatever you want; for example, you can go with a simple 1M run between FMCs...

 

[vert]

think8 g strongly of getting this one and calling it a day. I have an LPS I can use already. I have spoke. To a few who had the gigafoil and swear by it.

That’s the simplicity of it. Single box, and you can choose your own linear power supply.

I wouldn’t stream music without it.