Furutech Nanoflux

[FlexibleAudio]

I am haven an all Furutech Nano loom made for my power using the the Alpha Nano 10 Gauge from my Wall Mount Transformer to GTX NCF Receptacles and PC's made from the same Nano cable with with the new GTX NCF connectors. Hoping for the best.

 

[Rod#S]

I am haven an all Furutech Nano loom made for my power using the the Alpha Nano 10 Gauge from my Wall Mount Transformer to GTX NCF Receptacles and PC's made from the same Nano cable with with the new GTX NCF connectors. Hoping for the best.

Did you get your Nanoflux cables installed? I noticed Furutech just recently released the Nanoflux NCF cord as an updated version to the original Nanoflux.

Do you have any 20A components? Just curious if you are using any Furutech FI-52 NCF(R) and FI-52M NCF(R) connectors? I just found out these are available even though not listed on either the English or Japanese websites.

 

[Mike]

Has anyone measured the actual affect of the Furutech Nanoflux? With respect to power, I have reduced my line noise to 0.01%. I'm just wondering what a Furutech NanoFlux could provide me in that situation.

Isn't the ultimate goal DC (enter StroMtank here) and failing that, 0.00% line noise without choking off the amps?

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Did you get your Nanoflux cables installed? I noticed Furutech just recently released the Nanoflux NCF cord as an updated version to the original Nanoflux.

Do you have any 20A components? Just curious if you are using any Furutech FI-52 NCF(R) and FI-52M NCF(R) connectors? I just found out these are available even though not listed on either the English or Japanese websites.

My entire room is finally under construction as we speak.

All my connectors are the FI-50 NCF(R) with the NCF receptacles and NCF cables. I have no 20 amp connector requirements (I have all 50's instead or 52's).

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Has anyone measured the actual affect of the Furutech Nanoflux? With respect to power, I have reduced my line noise to 0.01%. I'm just wondering what a Furutech NanoFlux could provide me in that situation.

Isn't the ultimate goal DC (enter StroMtank here) and failing that, 0.00% line noise without choking off the amps?

Mike, imo its a lot more than just getting clean power at the source. I consider there to be four remaining keys to power:

1) an overabundance of instantaneous current (i.e., over sizing your transformer or current availability by 3 to 5 times your rated usage);

2) the elimination of inter-component contamination;

3) the damping of electrical and mechanical modulation and vibration;

4) the avoidance of ground loops through star grounding your entire system.

I use a 75 amp Torus 20 feet from the listing wall and 10 gauge NCF runs to help with (1) and (3) The key to the low gauge runs is low impedance for instantaneous current and also elimination of component modulation which feeds crap back into the component (especially amps). Vince Gallo at MSB wrote a nice white paper on this topic. The NCF stuff at the receptacle, power cord and connector further help improve with (1) and (3). The key to the connectors and receptacles is achieving a very low impedance connection and also the damping from the Furutech design. I use the Flux 50's for (2). For (4) I have a 1 solid inch copper ground rod tied to the ground of all 5 of my receptacles 3 feet behind the listening wall to keep the electrical potential the exact same at each of the 5 grounds.

At least that's what I got goin on.

 

[Mike]

I agree, but how can we measure to determine whether this goal has been reached? I'm not a big measurement guy, but when it comes to power, we can hear, but we can also measure. If you have common grounding, no cross contamination, etc. in your system, than its dead silent (107db efficient speakers really test this). But how can we measure to determine if we are reaching our goal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FlexibleAudio]

I agree, but how can we measure to determine whether this goal has been reached? I'm not a big measurement guy, but when it comes to power, we can hear, but we can also measure. If you have common grounding, no cross contamination, etc. in your system, than its dead silent (107db efficient speakers really test this). But how can we measure to determine if we are reaching our goal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As far as instantaneous current goes, the best analytic I have seen is the DTCD stuff that Caelin Gabriel does at Sunyatta. He certainly is a big proponent for instantaneous current and its impact on performance. The 3 to 5 times multiple I use comes from Torus. I don't know of anyone doing measurements other than Caelin but it must be doable.

http://www.shunyata.com/support/78-dtcd/289-dtcd-measurement-comparisons

As far as the measured effects of electrical and mechanical damping see here (scroll down a bit):

http://www.furutech.com/technology/


[h=2][/h]

 

[mauidan]

Has anyone measured the actual affect of the Furutech Nanoflux? With respect to power, I have reduced my line noise to 0.01%. I'm just wondering what a Furutech NanoFlux could provide me in that situation.

Isn't the ultimate goal DC (enter StroMtank here) and failing that, 0.00% line noise without choking off the amps?

See post #128:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ech-GTX-D-NFC-(R)-outlets-this-morning/page13

 

[Mike]

See post #128:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ech-GTX-D-NFC-(R)-outlets-this-morning/page13

Thanks Dan. That's actually the same little device I have and I've been using for a few years and recommending to people.

Here was my finding: when I went from hospital grade wall outlets to the Furutech GTX-D, the measured difference was 0% improvement - no change - (I do not own the NCF version). When I swapped out the Furutech wall outlets for the MIT Z-Duplex, I noticed a ~70% MEASURED reduction of EMI. When I then utilized four APC S20's, I saw a total 99.9% reduction of EMI, enabled common grounding and separation between components.

Regarding instantaneous current, the specs of the APC S20 show an output current max of 13 amps, which is ample provided you do not have any other devices on the S20 drawing power. That being said, current draw of an amp also depends on the particular amp. I can see McIntosh 2KW's easily drawing more than 13 amps! But, for most people, with most amps, 13 amps per amp is ample (holy cow, that's a lot of "amps" in there). It's also possible to find out the maximum amp draw for a particular amp. You will be surprised to learn many don't exceed 8 amps. For me, my flea powered amps probably don't draw more than 2 amps!

 

[mauidan]

Thanks Dan. That's actually the same little device I have and I've been using for a few years and recommending to people.

Here was my finding: when I went from hospital grade wall outlets to the Furutech GTX-D, the measured difference was 0% improvement - no change - (I do not own the NCF version). When I swapped out the Furutech wall outlets for the MIT Z-Duplex, I noticed a ~70% MEASURED reduction of EMI. When I then utilized four APC S20's, I saw a total 99.9% reduction of EMI, enabled common grounding and separation between components.

Regarding instantaneous current, the specs of the APC S20 show an output current max of 13 amps, which is ample provided you do not have any other devices on the S20 drawing power. That being said, current draw of an amp also depends on the particular amp. I can see McIntosh 2KW's easily drawing more than 13 amps! But, for most people, with most amps, 13 amps per amp is ample (holy cow, that's a lot of "amps" in there). It's also possible to find out the maximum amp draw for a particular amp. You will be surprised to learn many don't exceed 8 amps. For me, my flea powered amps probably don't draw more than 2 amps!

Mike,

I also own a Entech Wideband Power Line & EMI Noise Analyzer, and didn't get the same result as M.Pittman when I measured my old GTX-D and the new GTX-D NCF outlets. There was no change.

 

[Mike]

Mike,

I also own a Entech Wideband Power Line & EMI Noise Analyzer, and didn't get the same result as M.Pittman when I measured my old GTX-D and the new GTX-D NCF outlets. There was no change.

Interesting. Very interesting. I suspected that, but didn't want to say without testing myself.

MIT Z-Duplex....the only one's that were a measured improvement for me.

I was talking power when power wasn't cool (wait, is that a song or something?)....anyway, I went through all this, including the wiring of 8 dedicated 20 amp circuits from a dedicated panel box, proper grounding, wall outlet testing, power conditioning vs regen, etc. and determined that there was a lot of confusion out there when it came to power. The end goal should be exactly the four things Paul has indicated above, however, I will add, it must be MEASURABLE. A lot in audio (almost everything) contains an element of objectivity and a whole lot of subjectivity. To me, when it comes to power, it is really all objective. Good, clean, unrestricted power with measured verification.

 

[Rod#S]

I've always been suspicious of products made by MIT and Transparent Audio because of those network boxes they use. It's no surprise they make a difference however is the difference for the better because they deliberately F with the signal. I'm sure when it comes to the signal cables people think it's for the better because they've shelled out thousands if not tens of thousands but I have to wonder if one could pop into radio shack and build a similar box for a few bucks that would yield the same result to the signal.

Mike do you have anyway of knowing that the MIT unit isn't messing with your audio in other ways even though it's clearly measuring a reduction in one particular area?

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Thanks Dan. That's actually the same little device I have and I've been using for a few years and recommending to people.

Here was my finding: when I went from hospital grade wall outlets to the Furutech GTX-D, the measured difference was 0% improvement - no change - (I do not own the NCF version). When I swapped out the Furutech wall outlets for the MIT Z-Duplex, I noticed a ~70% MEASURED reduction of EMI. When I then utilized four APC S20's, I saw a total 99.9% reduction of EMI, enabled common grounding and separation between components.

Regarding instantaneous current, the specs of the APC S20 show an output current max of 13 amps, which is ample provided you do not have any other devices on the S20 drawing power. That being said, current draw of an amp also depends on the particular amp. I can see McIntosh 2KW's easily drawing more than 13 amps! But, for most people, with most amps, 13 amps per amp is ample (holy cow, that's a lot of "amps" in there). It's also possible to find out the maximum amp draw for a particular amp. You will be surprised to learn many don't exceed 8 amps. For me, my flea powered amps probably don't draw more than 2 amps!

Mike,

I also own a Entech Wideband Power Line & EMI Noise Analyzer, and didn't get the same result as M.Pittman when I measured my old GTX-D and the new GTX-D NCF outlets. There was no change.

A couple of thoughts:

I look to the Furutech connector products mainly for reduced impedance to improve instantaneous current and also for there damping. I would not expect line noise reduction other than maybe emitted EMI from reduced damping as that is not their main design objective. (I presume your measurement references are to emitted RMI and not line noise measurements.) I rely on the Flux 50 for line clean-up caused between components which is its design intent and of course the Torus to isolate from the outside world.

Regarding instantaneous current I think we are talking about different things. Rated current whether measured as average or root mean square are a small fraction of the instantaneous current I am referring to that people like Torus, Vince and Caelin believe is so essential to maximizing transients speed and dynamics. It is measured in a microseconds (millionth) as opposed to a milliseconds or seconds. My little 125 Watt amps draw 45 amps each of instantaneous current. My 75 amp wall mount will keep up but I believe the amps would fail to meet there 900 n-sec slew rate spec coming through a couple of 13 amp localized units.

 

[mauidan]

A couple of thoughts:

I look to the Furutech connector products mainly for reduced impedance to improve instantaneous current and also for there damping. I would not expect line noise reduction other than maybe emitted EMI from reduced damping as that is not their main design objective. (I presume your measurement references are to emitted RMI and not line noise measurements.) I rely on the Flux 50 for line clean-up caused between components which is its design intent and of course the Torus to isolate from the outside world.

Regarding instantaneous current I think we are talking about different things. Rated current whether measured as average or root mean square are a small fraction of the instantaneous current I am referring to that people like Torus, Vince and Caelin believe is so essential to maximizing transients speed and dynamics. It is measured in a microseconds (millionth) as opposed to a milliseconds or seconds. My little 125 Watt amps draw 45 amps each of instantaneous current. My 75 amp wall mount will keep up but I believe the amps would fail to meet there 900 n-sec slew rate spec coming through a couple of 13 amp localized units.

If you look at Mr.Pittman's post, he found very little reduction in radiated EMI with the new NCF outlets.

I didn't find any difference with my Entech Wideband Power Line & EMI Noise Analyzer.

I haven't tried a Flux 50, but this simple DIY tweak reduced AC line noise reduction by over 70%:

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Thats pretty cool. How does it work? I have heard the Shunyatta and Ansuz plug-ins are good but I have never really understood how they work.

Also, while Pitman only saw a "little" radiated EMI reduction from the NCF outlets, when he used the NCF connectors he got 4 times less emitted EMI, for what thats worth.

 

[wisnon]

Mike, imo its a lot more than just getting clean power at the source. I consider there to be four remaining keys to power:

1) an overabundance of instantaneous current (i.e., over sizing your transformer or current availability by 3 to 5 times your rated usage);

2) the elimination of inter-component contamination;

3) the damping of electrical and mechanical modulation and vibration;

4) the avoidance of ground loops through star grounding your entire system.

I use a 75 amp Torus 20 feet from the listing wall and 10 gauge NCF runs to help with (1) and (3) The key to the low gauge runs is low impedance for instantaneous current and also elimination of component modulation which feeds crap back into the component (especially amps). Vince Gallo at MSB wrote a nice white paper on this topic. The NCF stuff at the receptacle, power cord and connector further help improve with (1) and (3). The key to the connectors and receptacles is achieving a very low impedance connection and also the damping from the Furutech design. I use the Flux 50's for (2). For (4) I have a 1 solid inch copper ground rod tied to the ground of all 5 of my receptacles 3 feet behind the listening wall to keep the electrical potential the exact same at each of the 5 grounds.

At least that's what I got goin on.

Sounds very Goldmund-like.