Freya + VS. ARC REF 3?

I

ingleplob

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Apr 16, 2020
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Been looking all over but no info on the above comparisons.
Ref 5 however wins over the Freya + as I've read and, well is not surprise.

Anyone have experience with Freya + and Ref 3 or even LS27?

Many thanks

tag: audio research ref3, freya plus, schiit,
 
Welcome to Audio Shark

I've heard several ARC preamps but not Freya. I would find it hard to believe a $899.00 preamp, even giant killer status, would best the ARC. I was thinking about the solid state Freya for a second system but I wanted a sub out.
 
I heard the Freya + at RMAF with $10K Salk speakers and was not impressed. It was paired with the Vidar amps in Mono Block configuration. It lacked depth and musicality. The Schitt gear did not do the speakers justice. It is still an $899 preamp and it is overhyped. Don't drink the kool aid. While I have no doubt that it performs above its price point but no way it will compete with the 2 ARC preamps. Typically, cheap gear that is overhyped never really lives up to it.

I did get to hear the LS27 at one of my local stores and I was impressed.

What gear would you be pairing the preamp with?
 
I have a Freya+ here, it's quite an achievement SQ-wise for the paltry sum of under a 'thou. It's dead quiet with 100 db sensitive speakers and allows active, passive or buffered operation via balanced and SE outputs. I also had an ARC LS28 Mk I at the same time so its not hype. The volume control for the Freya+ attenuator has 128 steps using discrete resistors/relays. The LS28 uses a VCA chip for volume control, literally a $5 part and something common on mid-fi gear--just sayin'
 
Thanks for your input.
Low noise floor is for sure important, and I'm also curious about
transparency, soundstage width / depth, bass detail and dynamics.
I guess I'm asking for a full blown acoustic review lol.
Much appreciated!


puroagave said:
I have a Freya+ here, it's quite an achievement SQ-wise for the paltry sum of under a 'thou. It's dead quiet with 100 db sensitivity speakers and allows active, passive or buffered operation via balanced and SE outputs. I also had an ARC LS28 Mk I at the same time so its not hype. The volume control for the Freya+ attenuator has 128 steps using discrete resistors/relays. The LS28 uses a VCA chip for volume control, literally a $5 part and something common on mid-fi gear--just sayin'
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ingleplob said:
Thanks for your input.
Low noise floor is for sure important, and I'm also curious about
transparency, soundstage width / depth, bass detail and dynamics.
I guess I'm asking for a full blown acoustic review lol.
Much appreciated!
Click to expand...

there was a residual 60hz hum with the LS28 that was not present with the schiit that in the long run would have drove me nuts. Perhaps it was the difference with grounding schemes or just dumb luck. I'm running the CWIV with an ARC V35 which is a triode design with balanced XLR inputs only, in today's line up its closest to the REF 75. In my system, the Freya+ produces a detailed stage with depth, width etc. equal or similar to the LS28. My LS3/5as will lay bare in no time flat the differences in sounstaging and they both met my expectations. The stock tubes in the Freya+ are okay, I've rolled in other 6SN7s. The Mk I LS28 uses 6922s which is a derivative of the 6DJ8 and has a sound signature all its own, the Mk II uses the 6H30 supertube.

Quibbles with the Freya include too many volume steps, the bottom fourth or so are useless in my system. The buttons on the remote are small, and too closely spaced with symbols/hieroglyphics to call out functions which I still haven't memorized. The unit also runs hot to the touch, the chassis is small with a lot of PCB crammed into it. Heat kills electronics and reliability may be an issue over the long haul.
 
I owned a Freya for a bit. It was ok, but I did not feel it was anything special. The controls were noisy and inconsistent. Passive mode was not really passive, tubes were always on even in solid state or passive mode. The tubes were recessed which really limited their access. Tube spacers could be added if you wanted to try some NOS tubes. All in all a good piece but not in the league of the others you mentioned. It ran extremely hot which I would be concerned about for longevity.

A very nice piece for the price, but did not come close the the ARC LS-17 SE that I have also owned.

The two best giant killer pre-amps that I have owned, in my view are the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2 and what I currently own. The Hattor pre-amp is in a completely different league then the Schiit Freya. Much better built, much better sounding, much better array of inputs and outputs, outboard power supply, much better metal remote than the one that the Freya comes with. And the base model is about the same price level as the Freya, give or take a couple hundred. The top model is under $2k and can completely compete with most anything you want to put it against.
 
Thanks for the input. Wyred and Hattor are rare stuff up here in Canada but I'll take a look.
I'm also considering maybe the Ayre K-5xeMP Preamplifier as it seems affordable and they have a decent reputation.
 
ingleplob said:
Low noise floor is for sure important, and I'm also curious about
transparency, soundstage width / depth, bass detail and dynamics.
Click to expand...
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/florida-audio-expo-2020/
https://www.soundstageglobal.com/in...o-2020-tampa-usa/914-fae-2020-speakers-part-3
Both blurbs above were about a Freya centered system (the smaller speakers only). The latter by a Canadian outfit, so perhaps you could contact Doug S and ask his recollection, FWIW (given he may not be able to "parse" the sound of a component within a "system" soundfield, including room etc, etc. the way audiophiles miraculously can) .
My only minor quibble w Freya is the "clicky" volume. Otherwise it seems well designed.
Caveat here is I'm not an audiophile, I adhere to the scientific method. Test all equipment with an ABX box to separate actual sound reality vs imaginary, self deception, etc. https://www.pnas.org/content/105/3/1050.
That would include equipment that emit monetary notes, not musical ones.
This is important to me. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ
 
Ayre does have a very good reputation.

Wyred 4 Sound does a good business in Canada. There is an authorized dealer that most transactions go through. They also build for many other companies OEM and own other audio names such as SST (the developers of the Ampzilla amplifiers) and Carver (very very renowned name in audio), among others.

Here is a review that basically said it was one of the best pre-amps on the planet:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred2/preamp.html

Hattor is not as well known but in some corners of the audio world are considered one of the best. Khozmo is Arek Kallas's first company. Renowned in the DIY market for one of the best attenuators available. He also sold passive pre-amps built around these attenuators. Hattor is his higher end product for the person who wants something better and he custom builds to the configuration that you prefer, in type of inputs and outputs, color layout, and what level of parts you prefer. They are hand made in Poland and have gained a reputation for people who want purity in sound but not so much into glitz. He does ship them in their own flight case. I received mine in less then two weeks and it literally arrived in two days from when he shipped it from Poland to California.
 
Randy Myers said:
I owned a Freya for a bit. It was ok, but I did not feel it was anything special. The controls were noisy and inconsistent. Passive mode was not really passive, tubes were always on even in solid state or passive mode...
Click to expand...

you owned the OG Freya, the + model does not use the tube outputs by default and is a total redesign. Its switchable to either passive (no JFET buffer) buffered with JFET (No Gain) or Tube with 12 db of gain
 
puroagave said:
you owned the OG Freya, the + model does not use the tube outputs by default and is a total redesign. Its switchable to either passive (no JFET buffer) buffered with JFET (No Gain) or Tube with 12 db of gain
Click to expand...

I hear they redesigned it and it looks to be a bit better. It was always switchable between passive, tube, or solid state (JFET). The tubes are still always on (correct me if I am wrong). It still runs very hot. It still has a really low end remote. It still is very clicky.

Again, for its price it seems like a good solid value pre-amp. Schiit makes some great value products for sure. I stick by what I said however. Good product for the price, but I will stay with the purity of W4S or Hattor, both of which can be legitimately discussed in conjunction with some of the absolute best out there. The Freya cannot.

BTW- I love the Neil deGrasse Tyson quote, I have seen him saying this quote. He is fantastic. If you do not mind I will include that quote in my sig also!
 
sonata said:
Please see the 7-1-2019 review of the Freya+ in Positive Feedback.

Observations about the original Freya do not apply to the Freya+. The tubes are not on all the time.
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I am glad they finally changed it so the tubes are off when not being used! It appears to be a solid value pre-amp and I have respect for Schiit. All is good if this fulfills your needs. Obviously I understand that they need to make compromises to hit this type of price point. It is good to see companies offering products that allow people to get into better gear that they can actually afford. It is good for our hobby!
 
I have a Freya + and previously had a Freya. It is a very nice sounding unit. On the older version (Freya), the tubes were always on independent of passive, buffered or tube. On the new version (Freya +), tubes are only on when in tube mode
 
cpucath said:
I have a Freya + and previously had a Freya. It is a very nice sounding unit. On the older version (Freya), the tubes were always on independent of passive, buffered or tube. On the new version (Freya +), tubes are only on when in tube mode
Click to expand...

Awesome and I am glad you like our Freya! That is great but obviously there is no way it compares to the ARC REF 3.
 
Randy Myers said:
they need to make compromises to hit this type of price point.
Click to expand...
Luckily not with the sound waves, the only thing a few care about, including myself and also luckily, totally demonstrable and verifiable. Just like the Caltech (et al) link. 100% agree on all the other factors though, that make the "$90" wine etc, etc, etc. preferable/uncompromised/etc. To some.

cheers,

AJ
 
Sound performance is what matters most to me as well. And measurements do matter but I also believe that what makes equipment musical and great cannot be completely shown and determine by the measurements. I know this is a discussion for another day and another thread, but I will say that it has been shown many times that measurements are not the tell all end all when it comes to music reproduction.

With that said, and comparing to many pre-amps that I have heard; from McIntosh, Audio Research, MBL, Benchmark, Wyred 4 Sound, W4S Stage 2, W4s Aura, Schiit, Marantz, VTL, Audio Mirror, Dennis Had, Bryston, etc., etc., I can say with only a few hours into its run in, the Hattor AMRG Trans version is the best sounding pre-amplifier that I have ever heard. I know for sure that measurements will never demonstrate and account for this, just saying.
 
Randy Myers said:
measurements do matter
Click to expand...
A controlled subjective test (like via my ABX box) "measures" only what is heard. By ears. Nothing else.

Randy Myers said:
I know for sure that measurements will never demonstrate and account for this.
Click to expand...
True if one either never measures, or measures the wrong thing (symbiotic). Note, Caltech never "measured" a single wine. They understood what actually needed to be measured. Important.
I certainly don't dispute the sight of a Freya vs a 2-20X price tag can have the type of profound impact as demonstrated in the Caltech test et al (of which there are a mountain of). On some people.
YMMV. Including Ingleplob.

cheers,

AJ
 
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