Fremer's Generac problem--whole-house generators and SQ

[pdub]

You just have to get out of bed to turn it on.

Actually have a Kohler with unreliable transfer switch at mountain house. Been running it manually for last 7-8 years. A few months ago a hurricane eye passed just west of us. Yes, power went out at 5-something AM, but even after being out of bed for hours I didn't venture outside to flip the switch on the Kohler until 9 -- didn't want to be nailed by a falling branch. Often if the weather is bad enough to lose power, may be a delay in getting to the generator ...

Can manual switches be mounted inside? Say, at the panel?

 

[pdub]

That would be unusual for the "Panel B' to be fed from "Panel A" in this manor. If that was the case "Panel B" would be on the generator. Is there a 200 amp breaker/disconnect in "Panel A" to control "Panel B"?

Is the transfer switch a 400 amp switch?

Normally the 200 amp panels would be fed from the main disconnect/meter housing.
Are there 2/200 amp disconnects on the meter housing or is there one 400 amp?

Kingrex has seen many more panels than I but, this sounds quite unusual.

I've tried to explain this 3 different ways now ... probably just making it more confusing ... never should have highlighted Fremer in the title?...

The transfer switch is 200 amp and only goes to the main panel. Panels A and B are not connected to the generator, but there are essential circuits on Panel A like heat and hot water that should have been installed in the Main Panel but were not. There is a breaker in Panel A for Panel B. The Main Panel goes to the service by way of a transfer switch. Panel A goes directly to the service with no transfer switch. I would guess there are 2/200 amp disconnects in the meter housing. Neither Panel A or Panel B are halfway full, but they are both 200 amp panels.

I've been told there are @25,000 decisions made during a custom build (this was in 2013). The generator was at the top of my electrical bulletin point list. The electrician read through a white paper from Shunyata and we discussed it. Yet ultimately the generator was an afterthought and the dedicated circuit panel was seemingly subjugated to a panel full of all kinds of noisy crap...

 

[nicoff]

I've tried to explain this 3 different ways now ... probably just making it more confusing ... never should have highlighted Fremer in the title?...

...

You are right. Highlighting somebody else's problem has diverted others from helping you find a solution to YOUR issues.

 

[pdub]

You are right. Highlighting somebody else's problem has diverted others from helping you find a solution to YOUR issues.

I was just trying to be sure I didn't replicate whatever audio collapse he experienced, since I recently discovered my own issues. Amazing to live in a place for 7 years and only now discover that the generator doesn't run all the essentials. Been pretty lucky with the outages.

 

[j3brow]

I would think MF’s situation is unusual, no matter what Garth has encountered.

I too have a 20kW Generac whole house generator for about 10 years now.

I am now using my 2nd transfer switch as we converted from 200 amp service to 400 amp service with our home addition 2 years ago.

My audio nervosa made me worry I too would muck up my SQ by messing with electrical feed. It was wasted worry. There has been no audio penalty for having a transfer switch.

My first switch was a generac, my current switch is a Canton (IIRC).

My media room, including it’s dedicated lines, is feed with a 125 amp subpanel off the transfer switch along with 200 amp main panel and another 75 amp panel running the pool.

I too am using Audioquest Niagara to distribute power to my system, I use a 7000 and a 5000.





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[Kingrex]

If your trying to resolve an audio system branch circuit integration issue with a generator back up residential service, the resolution is simple. Move the circuits to the correct panels. This may require junction boxes to extend short wires.

If you still have ground issues, I would need to address each instance on a case by case basis. I don't believe the generator is the issue. Maybe. But I would look at ensure the rest of the foundation power system is correct first.

 

[Kingrex]

Generator Grounding and Bonding Essentials | Electrical Contractor Magazine


Read this. Here is your potential ground issues.

 

[CPP]

Can't tell if you're reacting to Fremer's actual issue or my potential issue.

My dedicated audio circuits (Panel B) are not currently on the generator. I don't particularly want them on the generator -- I want the cleanest power. But the way the electrician routed the wiring when the house was built, the service comes in to the Main Panel (200amp; transfer switch to generator) and to Panel A (200 amp; currently no transfer switch but housing circuits like heat and hot water that should be receiving power during outage). Panel B (200 amp), with the dedicated circuits, routs from Panel A.

Seems to be if I can rout Panel B directly to the service then the dedicated circuits will be receiving cleanest power (but no generated power, which is ok).
Then I would have a second transfer switch installed to take care of Panel A.

Possible?

Agree, its like he's telling you how to handle a GEN problem. ITS Michael Fremer of Analog Planet

 

[Kingrex]

All I'm saying is reroute the power to the subpanels any way you want. Just be careful how the transfer switch is set up. That's where your trouble lies.

 

[CPP]

All I'm saying is reroute the power to the subpanels any way you want. Just be careful how the transfer switch is set up. That's where your trouble lies.

Hey send Michael Fremer of Analog Planet an email to let him know. AS nobody here is going to contact him. All I'm saying we on here don't have a problem.

 

[pdub]

Hey send Michael Fremer of Analog Planet an email to let him know. AS nobody here is going to contact him. All I'm saying we on here don't have a problem.

No, my question was how to fix an existing oversight in my 7 year old generator set-up to get generator power to a sub panel with essential circuits like heat/hot water while avoiding what befell Fremer when he installed a generator. I think I’ve got a clearer picture now. Thanks everyone.

Parker

 

[CPP]

No, my question was how to fix an existing oversight in my 7 year old generator set-up to get generator power to a sub panel with essential circuits like heat/hot water while avoiding what befell Fremer when he installed a generator. I think I’ve got a clearer picture now. Thanks everyone.

Parker

OH sorry , understand now. Hope it works out for ya.

 

[tdimler]

I read Fremer's article as well and got a big in my stomach as I had just ordered a big Kohler backup generator!

Given that we all (mostly all) believe that power cords, outlets, dedicated lines, etc make a sonic difference, it stands to reason that adding an electrical panel or transfer switch to the chain could do the same, so I don't doubt what he's hearing. It could also be an anomaly or incorrect hookup.

That said, I don't see the harm in isolating your audio circuits ahead of the transfer switch which is what I plan to do. As some others already stated, I don't care about having audio during a power outage.

To pdub, I think you've got the right idea to just re-arrange the panels to suit your needs.

 

[Hounddog]

I have a whole house generator also, but no need for audio at that level if we’re living off a generator for an extended period of time.


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[CPP]

I have a whole house generator also, but no need for audio at that level if we’re living off a generator for an extended period of time.


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You really nailed it. I live at the beach and we got our whole house generator to support or home during long outages as a results of a, you guessed it Hurricanes. And listening to music is the not a top priority, we need news, power in general and like I said, having some critical music session, well is not on my mind. Like Hurricane Mathew, we were out for 4 days after being allowed back into our area. We arrived and the generator was running. You see this and go , I sure hope !