File playback format - Any preference?

BlueFox

New member
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
2,838
Location
Silicon Valley
As I get more accustomed to my S1 I have felt that there was a little edginess on some CD files. At that point I had been playing back all files in their native format. Out of curiosity, I changed all formats from Native to DSD, and playback seems a bit smoother now. The detail is still there, but now is more relaxed. Not that anything is missing in the sound, it just seems a little less sharp on some highs. However, it is more on the subtle side versus a night/day difference.

Anyone else experiencing this?
 
Bud, I think it definitely system dependent. But one of the great things about the Lumin is that it has so much flexibility.
 
As I get more accustomed to my S1 I have felt that there was a little edginess on some CD files. At that point I had been playing back all files in their native format. Out of curiosity, I changed all formats from Native to DSD, and playback seems a bit smoother now. The detail is still there, but now is more relaxed. Not that anything is missing in the sound, it just seems a little less sharp on some highs. However, it is more on the subtle side versus a night/day difference.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I've not experienced any edginess, but all my files are delivered via LAN rather than usb, so I'm not sure we can compare. I've not tried a memory stick or usb drive.
 
It isn't all files, but certainly seems there with some. I suspect it is the better resolution of the Lumin over the previous BDP-1/Vega combination that is bringing it to my attention. Then again, it might be an artifact from the S1 burning in, and will go away over time. However, my main thought is it is just a side-effect of how a particular CD was recorded and mastered.
 
As I get more accustomed to my S1 I have felt that there was a little edginess on some CD files. At that point I had been playing back all files in their native format. Out of curiosity, I changed all formats from Native to DSD, and playback seems a bit smoother now. The detail is still there, but now is more relaxed. Not that anything is missing in the sound, it just seems a little less sharp on some highs. However, it is more on the subtle side versus a night/day difference.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Relaxed is good. It means the digital artifacts and electronic sheen/bite are gone.
 
A lot of people like the effect of DSD upsampling (regardless of whether it's done by Lumin, or other software such as JRiver), I'm not surprised.
 
As I get more accustomed to my S1 I have felt that there was a little edginess on some CD files. At that point I had been playing back all files in their native format. Out of curiosity, I changed all formats from Native to DSD, and playback seems a bit smoother now. The detail is still there, but now is more relaxed. Not that anything is missing in the sound, it just seems a little less sharp on some highs. However, it is more on the subtle side versus a night/day difference.

Anyone else experiencing this?

A lot of people like the effect of DSD upsampling (regardless of whether it's done by Lumin, or other software such as JRiver), I'm not surprised.

Couple questions:

How big is your library after you transcoded to DSD?

What software did you use? (What others are out there?)

I used Korg Audiogate 2.3.3 to transcode a 24/96 recording of Dream Theater
to DSD so I could test out the DSD Disc capabilities of the Playstation 3* (Which transcodes DSD on the fly to 24/192(!)).

It sounded great! even after the two transcoding processes. Really what I was getting after is the ability to play better than CD bitrates on my Music system w/out using a PC or Mac.

I've read the positive comments here and here

I've looked hard at AuI ConverteR 48x44 - Hi-End audio converter high resolution files - after all I've played around with I don't think there is anything factually conclusive that we should be transcoding our music to DSD. It's cool though. :D

*Use a version of the Monster Cable Analog cables, however over HDMI the PS3 will transcode 24/192 and do multichannel too.
 
Couple questions:

How big is your library after you transcoded to DSD?

What software did you use?

The library is the same size. The Lumin provides the ability to change a base 44/16 file into two upsampled sizes, or DSD. I selected DSD and the file undergoes a PCM to DSD conversion on playback. I assume it is being done, but how they do it I have no idea.
 
ooooooooook Bud!

I think there is a misunderstanding. The Lumin converts on the fly or live (as you say during playback).

Now, Offline - The reason to be for the AuI Converter is that the premise of doing hard or slow math "offline" may be superior (more precise) in up sampling than any DAC that converts during playback/upsampling. Generally a DAC is resource limited capability , however when the process is conducted via CPU there could be more precision. See what I am talking about?

The second part is that when the upsamping occurs, the DAC is operating in a "light" mode since the file is generally at the max bit depth/ sample rate of the DAC. The AuI took all the hard stuff, crunched the numbers offline, and saved your DAC from doing all the really heavy lifting. Cool, no?
 
As I get more accustomed to my S1 I have felt that there was a little edginess on some CD files. At that point I had been playing back all files in their native format. Out of curiosity, I changed all formats from Native to DSD, and playback seems a bit smoother now. The detail is still there, but now is more relaxed. Not that anything is missing in the sound, it just seems a little less sharp on some highs. However, it is more on the subtle side versus a night/day difference.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Bud, I observe similar effects on RBCD PCM files with my A1. For some files, I prefer native while for others dsd upsampling.

Charles
 
As I get more accustomed to my S1 I have felt that there was a little edginess on some CD files. At that point I had been playing back all files in their native format. Out of curiosity, I changed all formats from Native to DSD, and playback seems a bit smoother now. The detail is still there, but now is more relaxed. Not that anything is missing in the sound, it just seems a little less sharp on some highs. However, it is more on the subtle side versus a night/day difference.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Hi. Check that Digital Audio Output is off . once you step on inadvertently and spent several days " in despair " by the coldness of sound.
 
On the A1, I upsampled RBCD to 176.4 kHz and lately DSD, believing that it would be better, especially since the Lumin is supposed to be better at DSD.

Recently, I began to notice a slight lack of involvement to the sound. Out of curiosity, I selected native output.

The result was surprising. I kept switching between sampling rates because I initially could not understand what I had heard.

On the Proprius "Now the Green Blade Riseth" album, the male chorus had more "richness" and texture, the flute trill sound was more defined and decay into the hall was more sustained (less so with DSD upsampling, where the decay was slightly truncated).

On Annie Lennox's "A Whiter Shade of Pale", the opening bass lines had more punch and texture. Instrumental lines were more distinct and easier to follow. Plus, the decay of sounds into silence was more sustained.

Overall, music was more involving or exciting, for me, without upsampling. Upsampling to DSD resulted in a smoother sound but something appeared to have been "lost" or thumbed down in the process.

Could be system and music/recording dependent though, and it is not fun to listen to the same piece repeatedly with different sampling rates. For now, I am sticking to native output but will continue to experiment.
 
On the A1, I upsampled RBCD to 176.4 kHz and lately DSD, believing that it would be better, especially since the Lumin is supposed to be better at DSD.

Recently, I began to notice a slight lack of involvement to the sound. Out of curiosity, I selected native output.

The result was surprising. I kept switching between sampling rates because I initially could not understand what I had heard.

On the Proprius "Now the Green Blade Riseth" album, the male chorus had more "richness" and texture, the flute trill sound was more defined and decay into the hall was more sustained (less so with DSD upsampling, where the decay was slightly truncated).

On Annie Lennox's "A Whiter Shade of Pale", the opening bass lines had more punch and texture. Instrumental lines were more distinct and easier to follow. Plus, the decay of sounds into silence was more sustained.

Overall, music was more involving or exciting, for me, without upsampling. Upsampling to DSD resulted in a smoother sound but something appeared to have been "lost" or thumbed down in the process.

Could be system and music/recording dependent though, and it is not fun to repeatedly listen to the same piece repeatedly with different sampling rates. For now, I am sticking to native output but will continue to experiment.

Excellent subjective quantification or good comments! Here's what I have learned about digital audio- in PCM: bit depth is the relative location of the noise floor from the max signal. sample rate is the bandwidth. Increasing either well past the human ear's ability doesn't get us anything useable.

Resolution is poorly defined in audio. In video it's : a measure of the sharpness of an image or of the fineness with which a device (as a video display, printer, or scanner) can produce or record such an image usually expressed as the total number or density of pixels in the image <a resolution of 1200 dots per inch*.

In audio there is no "resolution" Analog vs digital - digital can never sound as good, right ? Wrong...
 
On the A1, I upsampled RBCD to 176.4 kHz and lately DSD, believing that it would be better, especially since the Lumin is supposed to be better at DSD.

Recently, I began to notice a slight lack of involvement to the sound. Out of curiosity, I selected native output.

The result was surprising. I kept switching between sampling rates because I initially could not understand what I had heard.

On the Proprius "Now the Green Blade Riseth" album, the male chorus had more "richness" and texture, the flute trill sound was more defined and decay into the hall was more sustained (less so with DSD upsampling, where the decay was slightly truncated).

On Annie Lennox's "A Whiter Shade of Pale", the opening bass lines had more punch and texture. Instrumental lines were more distinct and easier to follow. Plus, the decay of sounds into silence was more sustained.

Overall, music was more involving or exciting, for me, without upsampling. Upsampling to DSD resulted in a smoother sound but something appeared to have been "lost" or thumbed down in the process.

Could be system and music/recording dependent though, and it is not fun to listen to the same piece repeatedly with different sampling rates. For now, I am sticking to native output but will continue to experiment.

Totally agree with your comment
 
I will be going back to native this weekend when I use the system again. I moved the DC umbilical between the PS and the S1 around last Saturday night, and that seemed to make a difference, but I need to revisit it again to be sure about the original issue, and moving the cable.
 
So, I am back to native, and it occurred to me that the occasional sharpness might be room related. Since, other than behind the rack, the room is naturally treated with furniture, shape, etc. the sharpness might be a wall reflection. Now that I have moved my SACD player to the HT the top rack shelf is empty. I thought let's try adding my back roller to the center of the rack and see (hear) if that makes any difference. Well, bigger than sh!t it does. No sharpness! I am amazed. This hobby is insane.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    712.3 KB · Views: 55
Good to hear bud. Some front diffusors like Vicoustics make may also help as well. Can you take some additional pics of your room (side walls, etc.)? A few modest treatments can really make a big difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agree with Mike, some treatments will help. I'm using Vicoustics and it made the biggest difference in my room. Take a look at my system page and you can see in the latest pics.

I may have some left over treatments if you're interested, Bud. Diffusers and absorbers.
 
Excellent subjective quantification or good comments! Here's what I have learned about digital audio- in PCM: bit depth is the relative location of the noise floor from the max signal. sample rate is the bandwidth. Increasing either well past the human ear's ability doesn't get us anything useable.

Resolution is poorly defined in audio. In video it's : a measure of the sharpness of an image or of the fineness with which a device (as a video display, printer, or scanner) can produce or record such an image usually expressed as the total number or density of pixels in the image <a rel="nofollow" resolution of 1200 dots per inch*.

In audio there is no "resolution" Analog vs digital - digital can never sound as good, right ? Wrong...


Adding to my comment, what also is a play is the filter at the nyquist frequency. Why some there are differences is how the low pass filter is implemented. A brick wall filter will result in some aliasing (nasty noise). So to get around this, there is less steep slope to the filter in most digital audio players.

When you upsample you can change the character of the sound through different filters. This explains the difference between native and up sampled. DSD has a filter way up past what you can hear and filter slope that is the smoothest in dimension (not sound- though it comes across that way).

Bottom line, the change low pass filter in a DAC will have a noticeable effect on the sound output.
 
Back
Top