Fast vs Slow

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Mechnutt

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Fast vs Slow sound. What is it and which do you prefer?

I always see the terms fast and slow with regard to sound. What is it exactly? Is it PRAT? Is is fast bass? Is it due to a high slew rate or dampening factor? Is it dynamics and transient response? Is it all in the speakers?

I have done a bit of reading about this and opinions differ. I have Magnepan 1.6 speakers and certainly they are not slow in terms of bass. I guess the 2 times that I have heard a difference in speed is when I went from a Parasound A21 amp to my Pass X250. The Parasound seemed faster but it was more fatiguing to listen to. It has a slew rate of greater than 130v/usec and a dampening factor of >1000 vs the Pass which is rated at 50v/usec and 250. The Pass certainly is more laid back but has noticeably slower bass but it is more textured, musical and powerful. The PRAT is a little slower in the Pass but much more pleasing.

The only other time I heard a change of pace is when I bought a Marantz NA11s1 DAC. I found the pace to be too fast and unsettling besides being very forward in sound which probably contributed to my dislike which was unfortunate because I loved the texture and tone of the DAC.
 
Good question. I encounter this phenomenon often. It's difficult to make generalizations if we are speaking strictly of amps because so much also has to do with the speakers. But, "fast vs slow" definitely has a lot to do with the bass, but for me, it's much more about the transients and the attack. If I compare a Soulution amp, the transients and dynamics are explosive. Wickedly fast. On/off in the blink of an eye if you will. If I listen to a tube amp or my old McIntosh amp, then dynamics and transients seem softer and slower.

I want to stress that there is no right or wrong or better or worse when it comes to the perception of fast vs slow. As you have found, the "fast" amp may not always suit your tastes.
 
I think sometimes when the word "fast" is used to describe a component or system, what people are referring to is the speed of leading edge transients that seem to be emphasized at the expense of the entire note. And when I say that, I mean that some systems that are speed freaks also can sound a bit on the lean side.

The flip side of that is the old saying that really good systems tend to slow time down. And I don't mean that 4/4 time rock suddenly turns into a 3/4 time waltz. I think it more means that the overall timing of the system is locked and everything snaps into focus on more recordings than when you have one component that is a speed demon. This gives the sound a sense of ease and naturalness like you would hear live assuming the musicians were all playing in time together.
 
Good points, leading edge is a good one, not being rounded or soft. Mike put it well. I'd also add being quick is absent of smearing, the notes hit clean with no artifacts. Along with transients and dynamics I'd say control adds to the sound of fast, controlling the drivers to keep distortions and lag out of the sound.

My personal taste, I don't like a system that seems to slow things down, it makes the band sound like they are playing with a major hang over. On the other hand too aggressive and lead to fatigue. My exceptions, and I don't really consider them slow, is CJ and Pass, I don't consider them fast but the PR&T is so involving you don't think about much else.
 
I think it's hard to say that anything is right or wrong. What I would like my amplifier to do is to make the music feel natural.

I want it to be fast, when it needs to, and slow when it needs to.

There is nothing worse than listening to a very fast system, that sounds really aggressive. Or a system where you get bored after two tracks due to lack of dynamics and swiftness.

It's about having the perfect balance. I might tend to say that if a system always sounds either fast or slow it's not a system for me. I want my amp to be a part of my system, not sticking out of the system.

I'm not saying transistors being lightening fast that it is necessarily a bad thing. It can be super fast even though it's a slow song, as long as it doesn't get offensive and aggressive.

Let's take Naim for an example. People has very mixed opinions about Naim. Some think that Naim has no control and doesn't like the sound of it at all. While some think that Naim has super components for a reasonable budget and is a great value for money.

It's all about setting up the right components to one another to achieve the maximum quality out of the system that you got.

I've listened to Naim systems (30-40k USD) that I would love to have at my home and that I could easily live with, while I've heard so many 150k+ USD systems that wasn't even close to that level.
 
In the fast vs slow debate, i'm in the fast camp...so long as fast doesn't also mean analytical, 'hard' sounding or dry. Some earlier model speakers with ceramic drivers could sound too dry and analytical. Though the latest generation Accutons have come a long way.

I was exposed to Infinity speakers in the mid-late 80's which use the fast EMIT and EMIM drivers, and loved their fast transients, detail and excellent off-axis performance. That formed an impression in my formative years as an audiophile. Then I got to hear the 7 feet tall Infinity IRS-V's in 1991 which ruined me and got me hooked on this hobby! All up, i've owned 3 different classic Infinity speakers including Renaissance 90's. Their High Energy EMIT and EMIT drivers were excellent, though like earlier versions, could sound a bit 'hot'. Hence they generally sound best with some tubes in the mix, or tube-like ss amps.

Some 'fast' amps I've owned and really like(d) include the Modwright KWA-150, Boulder 1060 and my current Vitus SIA-025. The Boulder was the most neutral of the three, but also sounds natural. I had it paired with a heavily modded Aypn CD-5s as linestage. So as always, synergy matters.

I've also heard some pretty awful 'fast' gear (to my ears) from Krell, Spectral, older 5 series Soulution amps, TAD, some early model YG speakers and some very early model Marten ceramic speakers.

Conversely slow speakers like some Tannoy models & slow amps like the ARC Reference 3 are not my cup of tea. I get why others would like them, but not this audiophile. My 2 cents :cool:.
 
I'm in the I wanter a "faster" amplifier now camp. However, I do think it's subjective to one's taste. For me , I do love my Pass amplification but, wish I had a faster slew rate etc.. Amps that have a bit more speed seem more "live" like than just listening to a stereo.

The newer Spectral stuff is amazing but, I'm apprehensive about MIT cabling. I'm going to give the German brand Audionet a listen when I get a chance.
 
Personally I would often describe speaker that are acoustic suspended and transmission line speaker to sound slow.

They have plenty of bass but is just seems slow, sluggish, late.

My current speakers are acoustic suspended. It's a two way speaker that can go low. But it's not super dynamic or lively.
 
Sealed speakers will always sound slower on attack than a vented enclosure. Fast transients with speakers have a lot to do with rise time vs percussive ( mass) energy , look at a square wave response of a quad esl63 for eg very fast rise time.

Jump or speed with amplifiers has alot to do with operating bandwidth , Bias and PSU design. IMO, Heavy Bias class-A will be smooth but soft and the other extreme Class-D have good jump but harshness, making class A/AB to be the best compromise and where most will hear "fast " transient SS amplifiers, without the hardness. Just enuff class-A bias for finesse on soft passages and class-B for jump on peaks ..

Speaker Z-load selected will affect which amplifier does this , speaker impedance and sensitivity affects when SS amps transition from class-a to class-b .


With Toobs i have only heard SET's with a better Jump factor than SS....




Regards ...
 
Melbguy1 said:
Some 'fast' amps I've owned and really like(d) include the Modwright KWA-150, Boulder 1060 and my current Vitus SIA-025. The Boulder was the most neutral of the three, but also sounds natural. I had it paired with a heavily modded Aypn CD-5s as linestage. So as always, synergy matters.

I've also heard some pretty awful 'fast' gear (to my ears) from Krell, Spectral, older 5 series Soulution amps, TAD, some early model YG speakers and some very early model Marten ceramic speakers.

Conversely slow speakers like some Tannoy models & slow amps like the ARC Reference 3 are not my cup of tea. I get why others would like them, but not this audiophile. My 2 cents :cool:.
Click to expand...


With Krells , if early Krells , you have to recap ( different brand) and lower the bias on the outputs to get great jump and less hardness, the later Krells FPB_CX models on, did not suffer from the hardness of the earlier amplifiers. Spectral is far from harsh or awful, so i would suspect setup , soulution i have never heard and ceramic drivers have inherent out of bandwidth hardness' that could be intrusive if not incorporated correctly in the design phase...


Regards ...
 
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