Ethernet Filters

steinkrieg

steinkrieg

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
119
Location
Colorado
Hi All,

It has been a few years since I was active here, but I'm getting back into the game these days. Back in 2018 there was a lot of talk about various ethernet filters. Since then there have been various products that have come out. Many people seem to think these are snake oil devices. Honestly, I can't say I have had the pleasure of hearing one of these make a big difference. A friend has a Gigafoil, and I couldn't make out a difference in his mid grade (but still nice system). I have an old one called an Aqvox.

Recently a friend pointed out the new DJM Activ that is at a cost of $1950.

I guess I'm starting yet another thread on this subject, but here it goes...

What do you think of ethernet filters? Has there been a consensus on this subject in recent years?
 
steinkrieg said:
Hi All,

It has been a few years since I was active here, but I'm getting back into the game these days. Back in 2018 there was a lot of talk about various ethernet filters. Since then there have been various products that have come out. Many people seem to think these are snake oil devices. Honestly, I can't say I have had the pleasure of hearing one of these make a big difference. A friend has a Gigafoil, and I couldn't make out a difference in his mid grade (but still nice system). I have an old one called an Aqvox.

Recently a friend pointed out the new DJM Activ that is at a cost of $1950.

I guess I'm starting yet another thread on this subject, but here it goes...

What do you think of ethernet filters? Has there been a consensus on this subject in recent years?
Click to expand...
I have tested DOZENS of Ethernet filters and switches.

There is no "sure thing" as it is SOOOO system and dependent on the wires in your house, interference, line pollution, kind of internet line into your house, etc. etc.

I have some I like and some I don't.

I would say this - only buy what allows you to have an in-home trial. It doesn't matter what anyone else tells you is great or not. Buy it, burn it in for a couple of hundred hours, and if it works FOR YOU, then it's great.

It's like anything else in hifi - if you have a good system and it's set up well you'll hear a difference. If you have a mediocre system or it's not set up optimally, you likely won't.

Also don't underestimate the value of adding vibration control to your switch and filter. It can be really interesting results.
 
I've been using the Stack Audio SmoothLan for several months and so far I've been impressed. It's just a little over $250 direct from Stack with a 30 day money back guaranty. Multiple reviews of it are available in print and on You Tube. I don't remember if Michael tried it or not.
 
The best Ethernet switch we’ve tried so far is the Nordost QNET with the Nordost QSource.
 
I bought an Ether Regen to try the improvement was enough I kept it.

To be completely transparent I have to use a bridge so I would imagine there is opportunity for unwanted noise.

There are several options to try with return, that's the only way to know.
 
Forget about routers, modems and switches. My internet input signal already has 36.7 ms jitter (see picture). There I am already lost, because the source: the internet, is already not great. Of course the jitter could be reclocked, but my issue is that there are far too many devices in the chain and less is more.

With the audio files stored on an internal SSD, the signal path is as short as possible.

There are 2 legal ways to have a copy to the SSD

- rip it with a very good cd ripper from your own collection
- buy separate music files

jitter.jpg
 
Thanks for the comments here. I have a very good internet feed, so I'm back to where I started for my system... I'm not sure any ethernet filter would do much to change the sound in my system. I think I can get more bang for my buck looking at other upgrades. 1.pngStill, it's a good conversation I'm sure we will all keep discussing over time. For now, I'm going with this for an answer about ethernet filters: "It depends on your system, and the general frequency environment you are in", said the classic audiophile with a vague and frustrating answer. ;-)
 
Michaels HiFi said:
Also don't underestimate the value of adding vibration control to your switch and filter. It can be really interesting results.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I have my EtherREGEN resting on some Herbie's Audiolab Tenderfoot footers in the RSR (Remote Server Room) reseting on an IKEA Lack table (which is very light but stiff).

Regarding "Ethernet filter", I also don't need an "Ethernet filter" because EtherREGEN has excellent "ethernet filtering" built-in with John Swenson's "moat" design, and then to provide additional noise isolation, I run optical fiber out of ER to my Lumin P1. Sounds superb and....very quiet. Job done.
 
Another recommendation for etherRegen. I hook up the etherRegen via optical to the nearest switch, an high quality copper Ethernet cable to the renderer module in the DAC. Via the other side of the etherRegen.

1) disconnected from electrical connection to the network
2) Ethernet “filter”
3) Ethernet reclocking

They have been working on version 2 for awhile now. Not sure if they are still selling version 1. Small electronic manufacturers are having a rough time sourcing parts.
 
Bones13 said:
Another recommendation for etherRegen. I hook up the etherRegen via optical to the nearest switch, an high quality copper Ethernet cable to the renderer module in the DAC. Via the other side of the etherRegen.

1) disconnected from electrical connection to the network
2) Ethernet “filter”
3) Ethernet reclocking

They have been working on version 2 for awhile now. Not sure if they are still selling version 1. Small electronic manufacturers are having a rough time sourcing parts.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the pandemic really put the hurt on the availability and cost of key parts they needed to manufacture ER. They are now once again selling EtherREGENs for $680. Still no word on when ER's replacement will ship.
 
Last time I spoke with Alex about that, he mentioned that the final parts are slated to arrive in early Dec. Then the further testing and verifying everything is ready for launch. He's hoping by January. That's if there are no further "surprises".

For those that are not on his list, the wait will be longer (based upon what happened with the original launch of the original ER).

Tom
 
I’m in a “hold” position on my system due to a cross country move coming up later this year. My system will probably be in storage till next summer. I currently plan to use the OG etherRegen in my system, as I do now.

I am waiting to see if the etherRegen v2 has anything to offer to help my system. Also, I have heard of development in process on a new version of Renderer for the MSB DAC, which may make any filter product moot, especially if it utilizes an SFP cage.
 
I'm sorry you didn't get an answer to your satisfaction. You ask me, I'd say try one, there's no cost since you have a return so it's really on you. I tried to be as fair as possible in my answer. You still have people who do not believe in using aftermarket cables or most other tweaks. So if you are looking for black and white you are in the wrong hobby. EE's even have disagreements on topologies and other applications. We can ask others opinions but in the end if you aren't willing to put effort then as you chose move on.

steinkrieg said:
Thanks for the comments here. I have a very good internet feed, so I'm back to where I started for my system... I'm not sure any ethernet filter would do much to change the sound in my system. I think I can get more bang for my buck looking at other upgrades. View attachment 33945Still, it's a good conversation I'm sure we will all keep discussing over time. For now, I'm going with this for an answer about ethernet filters: "It depends on your system, and the general frequency environment you are in", said the classic audiophile with a vague and frustrating answer. ;-)
Click to expand...
 
Mr Peabody said:
I'm sorry you didn't get an answer to your satisfaction. You ask me, I'd say try one, there's no cost since you have a return so it's really on you. I tried to be as fair as possible in my answer. You still have people who do not believe in using aftermarket cables or most other tweaks. So if you are looking for black and white you are in the wrong hobby. EE's even have disagreements on topologies and other applications. We can ask others opinions but in the end if you aren't willing to put effort then as you chose move on.
Click to expand...
All good! I was just joking that soooooo many of these types of subjects have the same answer... "it depends". The fun of this hobby is the discovery of what works for each of us. We all get to to try out a somewhat infinite set of combinations to find the magic that works for our particular ears. For now, I'm just personally focusing on other parts of my system. I think this area of ethernet filters will result in too small of a difference compared to other upgrade options in my system.
 
steinkrieg said:
All good! I was just joking that soooooo many of these types of subjects have the same answer... "it depends". The fun of this hobby is the discovery of what works for each of us. We all get to to try out a somewhat infinite set of combinations to find the magic that works for our particular ears. For now, I'm just personally focusing on other parts of my system. I think this area of ethernet filters will result in too small of a difference compared to other upgrade options in my system.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should listen first before concluding an Ethernet filter has a small difference.

A year ago I went to a show comparing Silent Angel switches, hooked to own clocks. Yes it is really worth it to buy.
 
I have many filters in my system, both before the signal even gets to the rig, and within the rig itself. IME, the effect is cumulative and the better the components, the more resolving your system is, the more difference the changes one hears is noticed. Some are minimal, some are more effective than others but the one thing everyone should keep in mind, is not every system is the same.

Some neighborhoods have more noise on the incoming line than others, some system components have more jitter or interrupted packets, mis-reads of 1's and 0's, common mode noise, current leakage, AC line noise and the list goes on and on, seemingly, ad nauseam. A really good clock can make these filters even more effective.

It is my experience that one filter, even though the manufacturer of said filter states that it blocks all noise, my experience has shown me otherwise. Here are just but a few that I have, for reference;

Muon Pro*
Shunyata Omega, Alpha and Venom Ethernet cables*
Iso-Max Isolation transformer
IFI A/C line conditioner
Puron's*
PS Audio noise Harvesters
Veri-Fi Snubway*
AudioQuest Niagra 1000 (streaming system only)
Well shielded cables (throughout)*

One further note. The location of these devices are critical IME to extracting just how much of a difference they have the potential to make/offer. The only way to really know if they will make a change in your system is to literally try them for yourself. There is no guaranty that what works wonders in one system will absolutely and positively work in another.

"It depends", isn't just an excuse. It's an unfortunate reality.

Tom

*Recommended more than the others I listed, based upon my own experience within my own system. FWIW.
 
In my view it really comes down to your use. If you are someone who enjoys streaming then any component inline with your Internet connection will probably help. If you are like me, and store all digital files on internal SSD and M.2 drives then an ethernet connections, switch, etc., will make no difference.

The only digital filtering I do (other HQPlayer as the playback engine) is Wyred 4 Sounds latest USB reclocker, the ISO Recovery. I also use their DC Recovery on the power going into the ISO Recovery.
 
I have tried a Gigafoil with an LPS and moved on fairly quickly. It was veiled and quickly set aside.

Outside of my front end powered exclusively by a Shunyata Everest with Sigma V2 PCs, my digital source comes into two ‘Nenon’ modified Buffalo GS2018 switches (powered by a Keces LPS connected to the Everest), connected to each other via Fiber. That is the only conscious ‘filtering’ I have. The only other power related item are two Shunyata Altaira grounding units.
 
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