Drought conditions, what about desalination?

Mike

Mike

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I was reading this article this morning:

With epic drought, is it time for a national water policy?

With epic drought, is it time for a national water policy?

I have often wondered why we don't explore desalination a lot more seriously. Wouldn't that kill two birds with one stone? We are discussing rising ocean water levels on one hand and drought on the other. You would think it would be all hands on deck to build desalination plants around the U.S.

Many of the smaller Caribbean islands have successfully done it. What's the reasons this hasn't been more successful for the U.S.?

NOTE: let's not turn this into a political discussion. Let's keep it a science related topic.
 
You really can't avoid having it turn into a political discusssion because it is all about politics. Desalination at this point in time always needs government funding.
 
I thought I remember reading that the energy ($$$) required to desalinate water made it a last resort option. There are parts of the country that better start looking at this as an option.
 
In the U.S. we do not have a water content problem nationally. We may have a water distribution problem. We have 20% of the world's surface area of fresh water of the world and 5% of the world's population. Much of that fresh water is in the Great Lakes. To put that problem in prospective China has the opposite problem with 20% of the world's population and a little over 5% of the world's fresh water.

For us if present weather trends continue it will be a problem of getting the water from point A to point B. Existing pipelines could be one solution. Desalination could well be part of the solution as well.

Here in Austin Texas the City has gone to a multi tiered billing system. The first so many thousand gallons of water are X and the next so many thousand gallons are 2X and then 3X. Austin has preached water conservation for years but until they hit residents in the pocket book behavior did not change much. Now there are empty residential pools and browning lawns in the summer.
 
^
What he said. You have the water. It's just a matter of moving it. Impounding it doesn't even seem to be a problem.
 
I was hoping to learn about the desalination process, what are the technical/engineering reasons for not doing it, what problems have been encountered in trying it and basically, why the heck aren't we doing it now?
 
Also, how about cloud seeding? That has been done for scores of years. These days (I don't know when it stopped), they don't do that anymore. Probably stopped because it worked or helped and we can't have that, can we.
Does anyone really think that the "powers that be" which are unfortunately the very things Mike did not want to mention, but it is the elephant in the room, are going to go for anything intelligent, beneficial to all concerned and backed by a mountain of scientific evidence?
I guess what I am saying is that hands who can help are tied.

Been to California lately? The state may be beyond saving at this point where this subject is concerned. In the last two years we have hardly had a drop of rain and the snow has had to be subsidized. I read that California is under mandatory water austerity now= Watering your lawn on the wrong day or washing your car will net you a $350 fine (if caught or reported). I live in a stupid apartment so I need not worry about those, but talk about desperate times!
 
Water policy (and genuine infrastructure policy) has been absent the political focus and we will pay a price. I am in the pure water business, so I will benefit. The current distribution system is over 100 years old in many major cities, broken mains cause huge problems, and small leaks cause some places to lose up to 30% of water pumped. Small leaks also contribute contaminant loads--when the pumps stop for a moment sludge on the other side of the pipe is sucked in to then be pumped downstream. Sewer and storm water runoff still are mixed in many places, and some locales have toilet to tap where treated water is mixed with fresh water to increase supply.

Look at Singapore for an example of water policy... Lots of people, very little fresh water. Desalination is part of their system (but yes, it is costly in terms of energy used) but they also receive tanker ships of fresh water, like we receive oil tankers.

I say build pipeline distribution and the source could be a big open pipe at the mouth of the Columbia or other major river, but then it all becomes toilet to tap. Heres where infrastructure spending ramps up, because you really want to use treated water to reflush toilets and do working-water work, and safe the fresh water for consumption. Separating the two requires replumbing everything.
 
Bob...do you mind my asking who you work for? I used to cover Industrial stocks and many of them had water pumps, purification and other water utility-related businesses (thinking of ITT, Pall Corp., etc..). Just curious.

Mike...desalination plants have been used around the world quite effectively. They are huge projects and so besides the up front capital costs, as Jim/Bob have mentioned, the process requires lots of energy so operating costs are pretty high. However, in a world where shrinking water supplies becomes more prevalent, than the cost of providing water through desalination becomes more economically viable. As many have mentioned, sounds like we have reached that point in the West Coast.

Desalinated water could be a perfect source for agricultural, industrial, and other commercial uses, saving fresh water supplies for human consumption. As Bob has pointed out, water infrastructure in the US is antiquated and has been underinvested in for decades (aging pipe/plumbing/pumping infrastructure, there is a mismatch water treatment facilities and regulations from one locale to the next, etc...). Water infrastructure has primarily been the purview of local/regional regulators/utilities and most government budgets at the local and state levels are so stretched/underfunded that important investments in basic infrastructure get continuously delayed/postponed.

Water desalination plants are very costly/capital intensive projects that funding these will require federal subsidies/incentives to help local/state authorities fund them. By the way, the political issue here with regards to infrastructure spend (not only on water, but highways, bridge, etc...) is not a Republican vs. Democrat issue because both parties have underinvested in this very important area of the economy but it's more a function of political expediency because there are always other short-term priorities that crowd out much needed longer-term investments such as are needed in many areas of infrastructure spend.
 
[h=2]Re: Drought conditions, what about desalination?[/h]
I was hoping to learn about the desalination process, what are the technical/engineering reasons for not doing it, what problems have been encountered in trying it and basically, why the heck aren't we doing it now?


Look at post #2 again, nicely expanded on in post #12.​
 
In China their is more fresh water in the south than the north. I know they are building a huge cement canal from the south to the north ending in the Beijing area. China tends to do projects with no thought to cost or how long it will take just start and work on it till it is done. North America just talks about it.
 
I wish we , as a society, had the courage to stop denying this problem and take some concrete steps to change our behavior and address these issues.

Letting companies drain our aquifers and sell the water back to us in expensive/wasteful plastic bottles...

Allowing aquifers to be drained for fracking instead of human consumption or agriculture, and re-injecting the toxic waste waters back into the aquifer... fouling it...

Are we smart enough to stop taking our finite water resources for granted ???
 
hoosiertom said:
I wish we , as a society, had the courage to stop denying this problem and take some concrete steps to change our behavior and address these issues.

Letting companies drain our aquifers and sell the water back to us in expensive/wasteful plastic bottles...

Allowing aquifers to be drained for fracking instead of human consumption or agriculture, and re-injecting the toxic waste waters back into the aquifer... fouling it...

Are we smart enough to stop taking our finite water resources for granted ???
Click to expand...

I can't agree more.
For me you have touched a nerve with "fracking". It's one of the most dangerous activities on the planet! Not only dangerous to the water supply, but causes earthquakes and increases frequency of them, not to mention intensity. (I have maps of all this). It also causes sinkholes. To me, it is a WMD chasing after money...our money.

Ok, off my soap box now.
 
Ok, this forum doesn't do politics. I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering, and we were just beginning the fracking process when I was in school. If you'd ever care to discuss, offline, this issue to sort fact from hype I would do that. For example, fresh water aquafer water is not used, but generally brackish or highly saline waters from water bearing strata that would not be considered anything near potable. And that strata accepts the waste as well.
 
Bobvin said:
Ok, this forum doesn't do politics. I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering, and we were just beginning the fracking process when I was in school. If you'd ever care to discuss, offline, this issue to sort fact from hype I would do that. For example, fresh water aquafer water is not used, but generally brackish or highly saline waters from water bearing strata that would not be considered anything near potable. And that strata accepts the waste as well.
Click to expand...

Agreed Bob. I did NOT want to turn this into politics. I merely wanted to understand the technical obstacles of desalination. It seems like a brilliant solution to me. Kill two birds with one stone if you will.
 
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