Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?

[KeithR]

Marty posted the exact same thread on World Boxing Federation and the replies are interesting. It didn't take long before rocks and bricks were thrown.

Apparently enough interest for you to keep stalking another forum.

 

[KeithR]

And why is it that all forums have become virtual WWE fighting matches? We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear. My god what have we become?

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

 

[NorthStar]

Marty, the whole damn world is upside down right now. I think it's fair to say that most here are thankful for what they have, most importantly health, family, friends and the good music we can escape to............

One good voice of reason ^

* It's all about the music in us. The gear is secondary, no contest.
The guy behind the one million stereo hi-fi sound system is not better than the one behind the $10,000 one. It's not what we have, it's who we are ... that matters ... the music.

 

[NorthStar]

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

I agree; it's the color of the beast since the beginning of the universe (big bang).

 

[Shadowfax]

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

I was there.

The Cable Forum was insane, but also fun if you had a sense of humor. I shortly moved over to the Rave Recordings Forum and my music library grow by a few hundred disks.

 

[mep]

Apparently enough interest for you to keep stalking another forum.

Since when has reading an on-line forum turned into stalking?

 

[AJ Soundfield]

We have people wanting to fight at audio shows all because of varying opinions on audio gear.

Yeah but that was over turntables. If throwing shade at a man's turntable isn't worth fighting over, what is?

 

[a.wayne]

 

[bzr]

Marks'/mdp a snapping turtle...

 

[Mr Peabody]

LOL, not fair.

One of the first forums I joined. I did get into a few hot debates there. Goes to show if the forums aren't regulated anyone new can come to think bad behavior is the norm. The site got ate up by spam and still is from the last look I had. I show to be banned but that was a surprise to me. I had over 10k posts so why would I suddenly begin to spam. Anyway a few of us landed here and some on FB. I never met Brian in person but known him online for many years. Same with Jack.

I also grew and changed gear while there. I was the first one to have a Pass amp and eventually several of the members followed by purchasing Pass. That's how Larry got on that direction, can't forget he is another refugee from AR. I did get to meet him at AXPONA one year and a bunch of us stayed until closing at an Italian restaurant in downtown Chicago.

They always have been. See the obj vs subj debates on Audioreview.com circa 2000.

 

[brad225]

Until I looked at the license plates I thought Mike was showing us another 2 garage spaces Santa filled for him this year.

I went from being excited to "yea I agree with what he said". Not that that wasn't moving Mike, just not your 2 pretty cars.

 

[Mike]

Until I looked at the license plates I thought Mike was showing us another 2 garage spaces Santa filled for him this year.

I went from being excited to "yea I agree with what he said". Not that that wasn't moving Mike, just not your 2 pretty cars.

I would sure like the red one! I find it interesting that Ferrari is now offering 7 years free maintenance on new cars. Looks like they’ve tackled the biggest complaint about Ferrari ownership right on the nose.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[nicoff]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems! :|

 

[mep]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems! :|

So how does any of the things you said affect your personally or professionally? How many of the "problems" you listed have been around since this hobby started?

 

[Mikado463]

So how does any of the things you said affect your personally or professionally? How many of the "problems" you listed have been around since this hobby started?

the majority have only been around since the internet began IMO. Regardless, I get your point as I do nic's as well.

 

[mep]

the majority have only been around since the internet began IMO. Regardless, I get your point as I do nic's as well.

I totally disagree that the majority of the issues listed have only been around since the internet began. Old audiophiles didn't start with the internet. The male dominance of the audio hobby didn't start with the internet. Prior to the internet, people used to respond to magazine reviews by writing letters to the editors to express their agreement or disagreement. The internet just cut down the lag time between reviews and comments. People's choices in music didn't start with the internet. Science skeptics didn't start with the internet. People believing or not believing in reviews didn't start with the internet. Last but not least, people having goals for their systems didn't start with the internet.

 

[Mike]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
Genre: too many males and too few females.
Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems! :|

I don’t disagree, but would like to comment on a few items.

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.

Perhaps, but the headphone gang which currently represents a 10x multiple of the two channel audio business.

The younger generation engages and interacts in a much different manner than we did.

So, should we not be welcoming all these young vloggers? Agree with them, disagree with them, watch them, don’t watch them, but guess what? They are using the medium which will and does bring the younger folks into the hobby. Do you think 20 somethings are reading magazines with pages and pages of measurements? Ha! Not a chance.

Genre: too many males and too few females.

This could be said for so many things in our lives. I’ve played hockey for 49 years and still play 3 times a week. In 3 leagues full of 12-16 teams each, we have about 3 women total. I will say this, two of the most talented women I ever played with was a top player from the University of Michigan. The other is currently the only female Zamboni driver in the NHL (for the Tampa Bay Lightning). See: NHL's only woman Zamboni driver is a smooth operator

Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).

Yes, that was wrong and addressed. On other sites, the ones that sell advertising space directly, remember this: clicks = cash. The train wrecks are good for the pocket book.

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.

Amen. I hate listening to the bing-bing BS audiophile recordings as much as anyone.

Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).

Because measurements only tell half the story. But the debate between meter readers and golden ears goes back a long long way. I doubt it will ever change.

Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').

True. Always evaluate for yourself.

Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

Oh boy, I could tell you stories. Again, I agree. I want a system that can play my old jazz records to my hippy music to my R&B and classic rock and everything in between.

In conclusion, the industry is evolving. It’s changing. It has been very slow to adapt to the shrinking world. Some still value geography over hard work and relationships, but it’s changing. The old guard is retiring or dying. The cliques that once seemed like a good idea, have been imploding left, right and center and those in the cliques that snubbed the new, the bright and the brilliant are now left standing alone in the corner. Today, the amount of quality brands has truly leveled the playing field, not unlike the car industry. You rarely hear about the “Big 3” anymore do you? Today it’s all about EV’s. Also, digital has evolved so much, even in the past 10 years, it’s just incredible.

The future is bright ladies and gentlemen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Mr Peabody]

Question: Does the Audiophile Community Have a Problem?
No, it does not have a problem. Let’s see…

*> first off, who is the "audiophile community, you make some stereotypical generalizations

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.
**> Most young people don't have the expendable income to buy expensive audio gear and who says a young person isn't an audiophile with a decent entry level system. I submit audiophile is a state of mind and passion.

Genre: too many males and too few females.
**> who dictates what the correct ratio should be? Not so many women auto race, not so many men in the knitting circle, maybe it's just one of those things. If you are looking to date maybe try online dating

Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).
**> We should show restraint and respect. On the other hand some here seem to take every opportunity to agitate by trying to belittle others opinions on audio, maybe this sounds familiar to you.

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.
**> conjecture, an absolute statement based on your opinion and no fact.

Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).
**> again, more wild accusations based on nothing but your opinion and contempt. Actually I'd say the opposite, most realize we begin with measurements. However, people like you fail to accept not everything, can, be measured and don't accept humans have a brain and sensitive not fully explored sense of hearing. Reviewers and audiophiles can only try to convey what they experience with the adjectives available. How do you explain red to a blind person who has never seen?

Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').
**> Just another generalization meant to inflame. When it comes down to it if you haven't tried green markers or other tweaks you find ridiculous how can you be certain your position is correct? If someone has tried it and it worked for them you can see how silly your statement is. And, how do you think it makes someone feel when you basically call them crazy by claiming it's imagination or we don't know anything but you are all knowing?

Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.
**> So what? What is the correct goal and who dictates that? Is it because the person who would do that don't meet your personal definition of "audiophile"? Are you the one who makes the rules? again, astatement you made based on nothing but your perceptions, or jealousies


So no, the audiophile community does not have a problem. It has MANY problems! :|

Ask yourself if your attitude helps or hinders the "audiophile" community.

 

[Randy Myers]

I don’t disagree, but would like to comment on a few items.

Demographics: too many old people, too few young people.

Perhaps, but the headphone gang which currently represents a 10x multiple of the two channel audio business.

The younger generation engages and interacts in a much different manner than we did.

So, should we not be welcoming all these young vloggers? Agree with them, disagree with them, watch them, don’t watch them, but guess what? They are using the medium which will and does bring the younger folks into the hobby. Do you think 20 somethings are reading magazines with pages and pages of measurements? Ha! Not a chance.

Genre: too many males and too few females.

This could be said for so many things in our lives. I’ve played hockey for 49 years and still play 3 times a week. In 3 leagues full of 12-16 teams each, we have about 3 women total. I will say this, two of the most talented women I ever played with was a top player from the University of Michigan. The other is currently the only female Zamboni driver in the NHL (for the Tampa Bay Lightning). See: NHL's only woman Zamboni driver is a smooth operator

Behavior: too many people who get nasty when someone challenges their opinions. (This site is not much different: Recently a member threatened another member to a physical fight!).

Yes, that was wrong and addressed. On other sites, the ones that sell advertising space directly, remember this: clicks = cash. The train wrecks are good for the pocket book.

Wrong Objective: too many people who equate a good sounding album with good music. Hint: most so-called “audiophile recordings” are not great music.

Amen. I hate listening to the bing-bing BS audiophile recordings as much as anyone.

Science Skeptics: Too many people who do not believe in physics and science (or measurements).

Because measurements only tell half the story. But the debate between meter readers and golden ears goes back a long long way. I doubt it will ever change.

Kool-Aid Drinkers: too many people who believe everything that the audiophile magazines tells them (yep, including 'green markers').

True. Always evaluate for yourself.

Wrong Goal: too many people whose real goal is to have the latest, "bestest", most expensive gear so they can listen to their "audiophile recordings" again and again.

Oh boy, I could tell you stories. Again, I agree. I want a system that can play my old jazz records to my hippy music to my R&B and classic rock and everything in between.

In conclusion, the industry is evolving. It’s changing. It has been very slow to adapt to the shrinking world. Some still value geography over hard work and relationships, but it’s changing. The old guard is retiring or dying. The cliques that once seemed like a good idea, have been imploding left, right and center and those in the cliques that snubbed the new, the bright and the brilliant are now left standing alone in the corner. Today, the amount of quality brands has truly leveled the playing field, not unlike the car industry. You rarely hear about the “Big 3” anymore do you? Today it’s all about EV’s. Also, digital has evolved so much, even in the past 10 years, it’s just incredible.

The future is bright ladies and gentlemen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree 98% with Mike with only one additional. The Internet has added one thing that I believe is very negative. The Internet has added Internet Balls, where people believe it is ok to say things and make comments that they would never do in person face to face....

Thank God for a forum such as The Shark having quality moderators that are able to keep much/most of this in check!

 

[puroagave]

That article could have been written in the 1950s save for the talk about on-line audio forums.

Very true. When I entered high-end audio in a serious way it was the '80s and I was in my twenties. Back then I was the youngest guy in the room (by far) be it an audio society meeting, dealer open houses or CES. Salesmen still quoted magazine writers. There were subjectivist and objectivist and mostly high-quality recordings of shitty music were demoed. Fast forward to today and what's changed are forums, internet 'boards and the rise of e-commerce and micro brands. Those cos. no one ever heard of except for word of mouth over the 'web.

As for the lack of females, its well established in psychology that a substantial majority of women are into people and men are into things. Looking at a bell curve its 80/20 and at the extremes you get guys that don't know shit about guy-stuff like cars, tools, audio gear, etc. and gals that are totally into it. IMO, ladies like Jana Dagdagan are rare, unicorns even: Jana's story, the long and winding road to a career in the audio biz - YouTube