Does a Hi-Fi mafia exert influence over audiophile discussions?

Michaels HiFi

Michaels HiFi

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I cover several recent actions that has me wondering if there is a coordinated attempt to suppress differing opinions on hifi gear other than the "approved" online talking points.

Just my personal thoughts and opinions for entertainment only and no accusation is intended nor implied in any way (Please dCS don't threaten to sue me).

 
Fair points Michael. Perhaps the new 5 or 6 box ultra big end DCS product will fail. Who would spend that kind of money with a company that distrustful?

There are other ultra high end products from other companies that seem truthful and honest.

“Caveat emptor”, “To each their own”, “It’s their money to spend their way”, etc.
 
crwilli said:
Fair points Michael. Perhaps the new 5 or 6 box ultra big end DCS product will fail. Who would spend that kind of money with a company that distrustful?

There are other ultra high end products from other companies that seem truthful and honest.

“Caveat emptor”, “To each their own”, “It’s their money to spend their way”, etc.
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Thank you.

I agree with you that there are certainly honest high end companies.

And at the end of the day, I love competition between companies trying to move the needle forward. That is something that ultimately benefits all audio lovers at all price points.

Thanks for watching.
 
There could be a HiFi mafia, but I think it’s more a bunch of established audio companies struggling with the new world order and taking g steps to maintain the status quo.

Manufacturers no longer control the discourse around their products and they get a little testy about it.

I understand that completely, because it’s a jungle out there filled with sock puppets, sycophants, and self-made experts all screeching in their echo chambers.

It’s entertainment, for sure. Always has been.
 
W9TR said:
There could be a HiFi mafia, but I think it’s more a bunch of established audio companies struggling with the new world order and taking g steps to maintain the status quo.
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I agree 100%.

I also think the other element is established has-been review outlets struggling to maintain their influence as gatekeepers of what gets talked about and who has to pay what to those gatekeepers.

It's the worst kept secret in the industry as to what price different reviewers and outlets (old and new) demand to do a review or grant an award.

As always, trust no one except your own ears. I enjoy them all as entertainment and ways to discover new gear.

Remember - the more someone claims to be "looking out for you", usually the less true it is.
 
W9TR said:
There could be a HiFi mafia, but I think it’s more a bunch of established audio companies struggling with the new world order and taking g steps to maintain the status quo.

Manufacturers no longer control the discourse around their products and they get a little testy about it.

I understand that completely, because it’s a jungle out there filled with sock puppets, sycophants, and self-made experts all screeching in their echo chambers.

It’s entertainment, for sure. Always has been.
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Totally agree. Adding to the concern of established audio companies is a refreshing new group of reviewers who rely on science to expose the many myths and legends that have been perpetuated and promoted in "established" audiophile magazines by many self-made, "golden-eared" experts.
 
This has only become an issue in this current disinformation age.

Once the objective measurements reviews went away , leaving the industry with mostly subjective blah blah reviews, we are now here ..!
 
a.wayne said:
This has only become an issue in this current disinformation age.

Once the objective measurements reviews went away , leaving the industry with mostly subjective blah blah reviews, we are now here ..!
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I don’t agree. Audiogear can sound amazing with poor measurements and vice versa a good test does not guarantee a good sound.

This is the reason you always have to listen yourself instead of buying blind from a test at audiosciencereview.
 
One always has to listen , its a subjective endeavor and no Audio equipment sound good with poor measurements , it may do so for a short time , on specific playback material , in a special room , full of herbs and only to the few ..

:)
 
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BTW , ASR is the other side of the Audio Demagogue coin , blah blah nonsesne review on one side and their specific testing practices to promote an ideology on the other..!

You need both sides to conclude ..
 
The question and disputed task at hand , the value of Subject Blah blah reviews Without objective measurements..


Useless or worthwhile
 
Measurements can be helpful, depending on what you're looking for. I know less than the majority of readers on this forum about measurements, but I know some are helpful to me. For example, a speaker that measures down to 20Hz will very likely produce deeper bass than a sub that measures down to 30Hz. High current amps tend to drive my Magnepans easier. Dynamic range and SNR numbers quite often correlate with (my) real-world experience.

Taken on their own without listening is in my opinion of very little use. Some of my favorite components score poorly on ASR's measurements. If other people find ASR useful, all the power to them.
 
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JCS123 said:
Measurements can be helpful, depending on what you're looking for. I know less than the majority of readers on this forum about measurements, but I know some are helpful to me. For example, a speaker that measures down to 20Hz will very likely produce deeper bass than a sub that measures down to 40Hz. High current amps tend to drive my Magnepans easier. Dynamic range and SNR numbers quite often correlate with (my) real-world experience.

Taken on their own without listening is in my opinion of very little use. Some of my favorite components score poorly on ASR's measurements. If other people find ASR useful, all the power to them.
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a sub that only measures down to 40hz is not a sub ..............;)
 
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a.wayne said:
One always has to listen , its a subjective endeavor and no Audio equipment sound good with poor measurements , it may do so for a short time , on specific playback material , in a special room , full of herbs and only to the few ..

:)
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I still don’t agree with that. It depends what is measured, and what ASR is doing is measuring Signal/noise ratio not musicality

Put your ear on the speaker, you can hear the noise if you listen carefully. If it is not noticeable at few metres distance it is not noticeable. If there is a hiss, that sucks, but most noises are in the range below the limits of hearing. For that reason, S/N measurement is the wrong approach. Other characteristics in sound production are important.
 
Why do you focus on ASR , i did already address this , its senseless measurements for measurements sakes , look at Sterophile instead who measures and give both objective and subjective reviews ...


Regards
 
NewAlkyogre said:
Put your ear on the speaker, you can hear the noise if you listen carefully. If it is not noticeable at few metres distance it is not noticeable. If there is a hiss, that sucks, but most noises are in the range below the limits of hearing. For that reason, S/N measurement is the wrong approach. Other characteristics in sound production are important.
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Disagree ,

they are all important in totality if not individually. Box coloration is very noticeable , its not only noticeable on the walls but also thru the driver cones ..!

This is where most of the coloration exits , listen to a panel speaker or any open back dipole for awhile and this will become very noticeable to you ..

S/N ratio is very important for a black back ground and micro dynamics , no micro dynamics no realism on classical music for eg..

Regards
 
NewAlkyogre said:
I still don’t agree with that. It depends what is measured, and what ASR is doing is measuring Signal/noise ratio not musicality

Put your ear on the speaker, you can hear the noise if you listen carefully. If it is not noticeable at few metres distance it is not noticeable. If there is a hiss, that sucks, but most noises are in the range below the limits of hearing. For that reason, S/N measurement is the wrong approach. Other characteristics in sound production are important.
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There's a common misconception that noise floor can be heard as hiss or hum at the speaker. That's not noise floor, it's just plain noise. Eliminate that and what's left is some very low amplitude, system generated electronic grit that rides on the signal. With large signals it's a tiny percentage so is inaudible. With the smallest signals it's a much larger percentage and can blur micro details into oblivion.
 
Where we are now is interesting in the context of how we got here.

In the all measurement days of Julian Hirsch of Hirsch-Houck Labs there were no real measured differences between all the major brands so you could confidently buy based on features and appearance alone. Life was good.

Then along came Harry Pearson and
“ The Absolute Sound", which he defined as "the sound of actual acoustic instruments playing in a real space.” .

This, and to a lesser extent Stereophile ushered in an era of subjective reviews that eschewed measurements. HP found little correlation between his personal experience and the measurements that were popular at the time.

A disturbance in the force was created. High end audio was born.

Today, the sophistication of audio measurement methodologies has dramatically improved with the advent of fft based signal analysis. Some say this capability far exceeds the human ear-brain’s ability to discern any differences.

At the same time subjective reviewing has grown dramatically.

Then along come Internet-driven echo chambers and influencers.

Some are measurement based, like the sophomoric and technically incorrect cult of ASR.

Most are totally subjective, where you have to know how the reviewer’s preferences line up (or not) with your experience.

Precious few do both. John Atkinson’s speaker reviews are a good example
of doing both consistently over many years.

Back to the original thesis….is there a suppressive audio mafia at play in the industry?

I don’t know, but I do welcome new voices like Golden Sound that are doing measurements and subjective evaluations together.

Because, to me, both done well are much more valuable than either in isolation.
 
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