Do you want accuracy over musicality?

If by "accuracy" you mean technically accurate or sterile, I prefer "Musicality". If by "Accuracy" you mean detailed or good reproduction then I would want both.
For me though, music is most important. That said, I do like a revealing system as in revealing details in the music without being sterile if that makes any sense. I don't like systems that omit or glaze over certain things in recordings because they can't handle it (usually it's the speakers that are guilty of this more so than the electronics although I have heard stark differences there too). I used to have a system that sounded like mud or blankets over the speakers, but did not realize it until I heard efficient speakers paired with "similar" electronics to what I had.
Now I have nice efficient speakers which are not shy about letting me know what is a crap recording and doing magic with good recordings and I have recently finished upgrading all the electronics. Difference is night and day. I enjoy hearing stuff in recordings I am more than extremely familiar with that I had not heard before. To me, that is an aspect audio nirvana. When I can feel the music with my whole being while listening to it, that is where it's at.
So pretty much I will take musicality over sterile accuracy all day, any day.
If any of that drivel made any sense.

~Eric
 
For me, musicality wins over sterile surgical accuracy. Sure that's what some strive to get to but I'm a bit of a tweaker, if it takes a bump at 63Hz from the EQ to bring a little life in the low end or a cut at 13,000Hz to knock a touch of bright off the top end so be it. I know what I like to hear and I tweak a bit here and there to get it. My room ain't perfect but at least I can simply do a nudge and shove here and there and get to my thinking of happiness.
 
I think that this has been said in other words before but let's put my words on it.
Musicality and Accuracy are actually the same.
I did not always think this way. It took me years to get to that point and especially the discovery of Harbeth speakers.

Each hifi component, electronics or speaker, has a particular voice. A color. No one is 100% transparent. And each room also has its own voice.
I have multiple systems in various rooms because I always thought that listening to the same speaker in the same room is like listening to the same person talking for years. I already have my wife for that ! :D. And of course, I thought that musicality was way more important than accuracy.

Now, let's take the example of a speaker which is not 100 % transparent ( again, no one is ), but goes very close to this perfection, and at the same time, is extremely detailed and accurate. Through such a speaker, which has almost "no voice", the music really flaws like a river. Such a speaker is truly like a chameleon. It is not like hearing all the time the same speaker. You are actually hearing each and every time, a different speaker, for each and every record played.

Such a speaker will also educate your ears in a way that they will be much more sensitive to all the colorations of the majority of other speakers. Sometimes they are obvious and you can identify them very clearly. Sometimes you cannot point any part of the spectrum but you simply know that something is "wrong".

I found such a speaker with the Harbeth 40.1. Of course, I do not say that this is the only speaker able to conciliate musicality and accuracy and having almost no voice by itself. There may be many others from many other brands. I just never heard any other one.

So now, I know some things that I ignored in the past. And as a result my views on hifi changed completely.

1- I do not want my system to be "voiced" by anyone else than me. I want the voice of music. Various musics. Various voices. Not the voice of any "Hifi Master".
2- The ideal system has actually no "voice" and let the maximum transparency between my ears and the recording.
3- When this is done, Musicality and Accuracy actually join into Transparency.
4- When this is done, you actually do not need anything else. You do not need multiple systems to have different colors. Each recording will have a different color.
5- You only need different systems if you need music in different rooms.

One last word. Accuracy is often misunderstood with "hyper detailed and analytic" sound. Some speakers throw details of the music with over emphasis, in such a way that some people may think " Wow ! the ultimate level of transparency ! I can hear so many things that were missing or slightly erased before !". Those speakers are pure artifacts. They actually lack coherence and the overemphasize of details does not reflect the reality of the listening to real instruments. Details should be here. But they should not distract us from the music. They should not appeal to themselves. Any speaker that highlights (and put aside from the general music) the sound of the tongue against the teeth and the palate, the sound of the fingers on the strings, the sound of the feet on the pedals is just out of the reason why we are all here. They are like an ordinary or bad looking woman trying to attract other's eyes with excessive make up.
True beauty does not need this make up.
 
Jerome, great post,lots of true stuff in it too.I've done analytical in my systems of past, have also done musical, & now am heading towards accurate with a very easy presentation.
 
Jerome W said:
I think that this has been said in other words before but let's put my words on it.
Musicality and Accuracy are actually the same.
I did not always think this way. It took me years to get to that point and especially the discovery of Harbeth speakers.

Each hifi component, electronics or speaker, has a particular voice. A color. No one is 100% transparent. And each room also has its own voice.
I have multiple systems in various rooms because I always thought that listening to the same speaker in the same room is like listening to the same person talking for years. I already have my wife for that ! :D. And of course, I thought that musicality was way more important than accuracy.

Now, let's take the example of a speaker which is not 100 % transparent ( again, no one is ), but goes very close to this perfection, and at the same time, is extremely detailed and accurate. Through such a speaker, which has almost "no voice", the music really flaws like a river. Such a speaker is truly like a chameleon. It is not like hearing all the time the same speaker. You are actually hearing each and every time, a different speaker, for each and every record played.

Such a speaker will also educate your ears in a way that they will be much more sensitive to all the colorations of the majority of other speakers. Sometimes they are obvious and you can identify them very clearly. Sometimes you cannot point any part of the spectrum but you simply know that something is "wrong".

I found such a speaker with the Harbeth 40.1. Of course, I do not say that this is the only speaker able to conciliate musicality and accuracy and having almost no voice by itself. There may be many others from many other brands. I just never heard any other one.

So now, I know some things that I ignored in the past. And as a result my views on hifi changed completely.

1- I do not want my system to be "voiced" by anyone else than me. I want the voice of music. Various musics. Various voices. Not the voice of any "Hifi Master".
2- The ideal system has actually no "voice" and let the maximum transparency between my ears and the recording.
3- When this is done, Musicality and Accuracy actually join into Transparency.
4- When this is done, you actually do not need anything else. You do not need multiple systems to have different colors. Each recording will have a different color.
5- You only need different systems if you need music in different rooms.

One last word. Accuracy is often misunderstood with "hyper detailed and analytic" sound. Some speakers throw details of the music with over emphasis, in such a way that some people may think " Wow ! the ultimate level of transparency ! I can hear so many things that were missing or slightly erased before !". Those speakers are pure artifacts. They actually lack coherence and the overemphasize of details does not reflect the reality of the listening to real instruments. Details should be here. But they should not distract us from the music. They should not appeal to themselves. Any speaker that highlights (and put aside from the general music) the sound of the tongue against the teeth and the palate, the sound of the fingers on the strings, the sound of the feet on the pedals is just out of the reason why we are all here. They are like an ordinary or bad looking woman trying to attract other's eyes with excessive make up.
True beauty does not need this make up.
Click to expand...

Nice post, Jerome! I agree with many of your points! I believe there was an earlier thread on AS polling the type of gear you want: colored or neutral. Back then I voted colored (implying warmth). Yet, I find myself buying more 'neutral' gear than colored, as I find the coloring/voicing gets in the way of enjoying the music in the long run. To me, accuracy = musical. It just took me a while to appreciate that...:rolleyes:
 
socfan12 said:
Nice post, Jerome! I agree with many of your points! I believe there was an earlier thread on AS polling the type of gear you want: colored or neutral. Back then I voted colored (implying warmth). Yet, I find myself buying more 'neutral' gear than colored, as I find the coloring/voicing gets in the way of enjoying the music in the long run. To me, accuracy = musical. It just took me a while to appreciate that...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Thanks ! We are precisely on the same rock !


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk
 
Jerome,

Man, you've hit it right on the head, none of it is prefect, it's merely a matter of which compromises the end user finds fits their preferences that matters most, I tend to pursue a more transparent/neutral signature if you will, as I find it allows one " me " to hear more easily into the differences that should exist with any given recording label, less one thinks that they should all sound the same?, for me musicality is an emotional thing that draws me deeper and deeper into the recordings themselves - yet has the ability to let me know at the same time if an artist or recording engineer/producer had a bad day?, as each of us should have more insight into which recording labels were in fact better at their craft then others - case in point, now many of you've heard/owned the original Blue Note Deep Groove Mono's?, and haven't been moved to the point of wondering how RVG did it?, or why even less then VG+ versions fetch so much on the used market?, it's because of their truer sense of Fidelity or better put purity that catches ones senses first and foremost.

In light of this, I'm more inclined to understand what you're getting at as far as the term colored as well, as some seem to thing that an overly warm sounding component is where's it's at!, yet in the end, if every single recording sounds glossed over, then where's the beauty in that!.

You guys do in fact make me re-think how any of us should go about re-learning how to listen to music to begin with, as a older Japanese guy I knew while stationed in Japan during the mid 70's, would always try to question me, on how Westerners heard music?, he was more or less saying - we listen to the components/boxes, and never allow to musical notes to reach us on a purely spiritual manner, and over the years since, I've found many guys seeming throw funds at components with fingers crossed, praying for a connection, but very seldom find it, yet a few friends of mine from the Hong Kong Tube Audio site have taught me the importance of what Transparency/Neutrality are all about since 1999, and in hindsight it all seems very true - Westerners judge by what's heard through the boxes, instead of through their hearts.

I for one, feel your passionate meaning behind your post, and thank you for seeing it as it should be, it's nice to see someone else gets it.

Peace,
O_o scar
 
I believe that much of what has been said is too gear related. I am looking for good music and when I say that I don't mean audiophile recordings. I want a performance that makes me pay attention and a good song will do that no matter if I hear it in my car, on my wife's Zeppelin, over the whole house system or in my two-channel room. I don't think of it as either accurate or detailed. I think more along the lines of immediacy and scale or what you experience at a live performance.
 
Jerome W said:
I think that this has been said in other words before but let's put my words on it.
Musicality and Accuracy are actually the same.
I did not always think this way. It took me years to get to that point and especially the discovery of Harbeth speakers.

Each hifi component, electronics or speaker, has a particular voice. A color. No one is 100% transparent. And each room also has its own voice.
I have multiple systems in various rooms because I always thought that listening to the same speaker in the same room is like listening to the same person talking for years. I already have my wife for that ! :D. And of course, I thought that musicality was way more important than accuracy.

Now, let's take the example of a speaker which is not 100 % transparent ( again, no one is ), but goes very close to this perfection, and at the same time, is extremely detailed and accurate. Through such a speaker, which has almost "no voice", the music really flaws like a river. Such a speaker is truly like a chameleon. It is not like hearing all the time the same speaker. You are actually hearing each and every time, a different speaker, for each and every record played.

Such a speaker will also educate your ears in a way that they will be much more sensitive to all the colorations of the majority of other speakers. Sometimes they are obvious and you can identify them very clearly. Sometimes you cannot point any part of the spectrum but you simply know that something is "wrong".

I found such a speaker with the Harbeth 40.1. Of course, I do not say that this is the only speaker able to conciliate musicality and accuracy and having almost no voice by itself. There may be many others from many other brands. I just never heard any other one.

So now, I know some things that I ignored in the past. And as a result my views on hifi changed completely.

1- I do not want my system to be "voiced" by anyone else than me. I want the voice of music. Various musics. Various voices. Not the voice of any "Hifi Master".
2- The ideal system has actually no "voice" and let the maximum transparency between my ears and the recording.
3- When this is done, Musicality and Accuracy actually join into Transparency.
4- When this is done, you actually do not need anything else. You do not need multiple systems to have different colors. Each recording will have a different color.
5- You only need different systems if you need music in different rooms.

One last word. Accuracy is often misunderstood with "hyper detailed and analytic" sound. Some speakers throw details of the music with over emphasis, in such a way that some people may think " Wow ! the ultimate level of transparency ! I can hear so many things that were missing or slightly erased before !". Those speakers are pure artifacts. They actually lack coherence and the overemphasize of details does not reflect the reality of the listening to real instruments. Details should be here. But they should not distract us from the music. They should not appeal to themselves. Any speaker that highlights (and put aside from the general music) the sound of the tongue against the teeth and the palate, the sound of the fingers on the strings, the sound of the feet on the pedals is just out of the reason why we are all here. They are like an ordinary or bad looking woman trying to attract other's eyes with excessive make up.
True beauty does not need this make up.
Click to expand...

I would vote as post of the year Jérôme, you accurately described most of my feelings with regards to sound reproduction. There are no rights and no wrong, no whites and no blacks but shades of Grey and to each is own in finding musicality/neutrality.

Haven't been posting recently, lurking mode only, as I have been busy listening to what I have and enjoying every minutes of my system without any gear envy. I'm happy, Isn't what it's all about?
 
RedSectorA said:
I would vote as post of the year Jérôme, you accurately described most of my feelings with regards to sound reproduction. There are no rights and no wrong, no whites and no blacks but shades of Grey and to each is own in finding musicality/neutrality.

Haven't been posting recently, lurking mode only, as I have been busy listening to what I have and enjoying every minutes of my system without any gear envy. I'm happy, Isn't what it's all about?
Click to expand...

Dan,

Being so happy/content with ones system, is indeed what it's all about, but with some this is only short term, or better yet in theory. But it's nice seeing another Canadian that understands the importance of a well matched/thought out system.

Happy listening.
 
Jerome W said:
I think that this has been said in other words before but let's put my words on it.
Musicality and Accuracy are actually the same.
I did not always think this way. It took me years to get to that point and especially the discovery of Harbeth speakers.

Each hifi component, electronics or speaker, has a particular voice. A color. No one is 100% transparent. And each room also has its own voice.
I have multiple systems in various rooms because I always thought that listening to the same speaker in the same room is like listening to the same person talking for years. I already have my wife for that ! :D. And of course, I thought that musicality was way more important than accuracy.

Now, let's take the example of a speaker which is not 100 % transparent ( again, no one is ), but goes very close to this perfection, and at the same time, is extremely detailed and accurate. Through such a speaker, which has almost "no voice", the music really flaws like a river. Such a speaker is truly like a chameleon. It is not like hearing all the time the same speaker. You are actually hearing each and every time, a different speaker, for each and every record played.

Such a speaker will also educate your ears in a way that they will be much more sensitive to all the colorations of the majority of other speakers. Sometimes they are obvious and you can identify them very clearly. Sometimes you cannot point any part of the spectrum but you simply know that something is "wrong".

I found such a speaker with the Harbeth 40.1. Of course, I do not say that this is the only speaker able to conciliate musicality and accuracy and having almost no voice by itself. There may be many others from many other brands. I just never heard any other one.

So now, I know some things that I ignored in the past. And as a result my views on hifi changed completely.

1- I do not want my system to be "voiced" by anyone else than me. I want the voice of music. Various musics. Various voices. Not the voice of any "Hifi Master".
2- The ideal system has actually no "voice" and let the maximum transparency between my ears and the recording.
3- When this is done, Musicality and Accuracy actually join into Transparency.
4- When this is done, you actually do not need anything else. You do not need multiple systems to have different colors. Each recording will have a different color.
5- You only need different systems if you need music in different rooms.

One last word. Accuracy is often misunderstood with "hyper detailed and analytic" sound. Some speakers throw details of the music with over emphasis, in such a way that some people may think " Wow ! the ultimate level of transparency ! I can hear so many things that were missing or slightly erased before !". Those speakers are pure artifacts. They actually lack coherence and the overemphasize of details does not reflect the reality of the listening to real instruments. Details should be here. But they should not distract us from the music. They should not appeal to themselves. Any speaker that highlights (and put aside from the general music) the sound of the tongue against the teeth and the palate, the sound of the fingers on the strings, the sound of the feet on the pedals is just out of the reason why we are all here. They are like an ordinary or bad looking woman trying to attract other's eyes with excessive make up.
True beauty does not need this make up.
Click to expand...

Excellent! If I could give you a Greene I would. Excellent!
 
RedSectorA said:
I would vote as post of the year Jérôme, you accurately described most of my feelings with regards to sound reproduction. There are no rights and no wrong, no whites and no blacks but shades of Grey and to each is own in finding musicality/neutrality.

Haven't been posting recently, lurking mode only, as I have been busy listening to what I have and enjoying every minutes of my system without any gear envy. I'm happy, Isn't what it's all about?
Click to expand...

Dan...
Thanks a lot for the nice words.

I have been mostly lurking too these last months and I will post less and less for the same reason than you.
There is nothing like enjoying really what we have and no desire for anything else !


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk
 
Jerome W said:
I think that this has been said in other words before but let's put my words on it.
Musicality and Accuracy are actually the same.
I did not always think this way. It took me years to get to that point and especially the discovery of Harbeth speakers.

Each hifi component, electronics or speaker, has a particular voice. A color. No one is 100% transparent. And each room also has its own voice.
I have multiple systems in various rooms because I always thought that listening to the same speaker in the same room is like listening to the same person talking for years. I already have my wife for that ! :D. And of course, I thought that musicality was way more important than accuracy.

Now, let's take the example of a speaker which is not 100 % transparent ( again, no one is ), but goes very close to this perfection, and at the same time, is extremely detailed and accurate. Through such a speaker, which has almost "no voice", the music really flaws like a river. Such a speaker is truly like a chameleon. It is not like hearing all the time the same speaker. You are actually hearing each and every time, a different speaker, for each and every record played.

Such a speaker will also educate your ears in a way that they will be much more sensitive to all the colorations of the majority of other speakers. Sometimes they are obvious and you can identify them very clearly. Sometimes you cannot point any part of the spectrum but you simply know that something is "wrong".

I found such a speaker with the Harbeth 40.1. Of course, I do not say that this is the only speaker able to conciliate musicality and accuracy and having almost no voice by itself. There may be many others from many other brands. I just never heard any other one.

So now, I know some things that I ignored in the past. And as a result my views on hifi changed completely.

1- I do not want my system to be "voiced" by anyone else than me. I want the voice of music. Various musics. Various voices. Not the voice of any "Hifi Master".
2- The ideal system has actually no "voice" and let the maximum transparency between my ears and the recording.
3- When this is done, Musicality and Accuracy actually join into Transparency.
4- When this is done, you actually do not need anything else. You do not need multiple systems to have different colors. Each recording will have a different color.
5- You only need different systems if you need music in different rooms.

One last word. Accuracy is often misunderstood with "hyper detailed and analytic" sound. Some speakers throw details of the music with over emphasis, in such a way that some people may think " Wow ! the ultimate level of transparency ! I can hear so many things that were missing or slightly erased before !". Those speakers are pure artifacts. They actually lack coherence and the overemphasize of details does not reflect the reality of the listening to real instruments. Details should be here. But they should not distract us from the music. They should not appeal to themselves. Any speaker that highlights (and put aside from the general music) the sound of the tongue against the teeth and the palate, the sound of the fingers on the strings, the sound of the feet on the pedals is just out of the reason why we are all here. They are like an ordinary or bad looking woman trying to attract other's eyes with excessive make up.
True beauty does not need this make up.
Click to expand...

Jerome,

Really great post!! :congrats:......Eloquently articulated!! :thumbsup:
 
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