Digital, where are we & what tribe are you in?

sharkmouth

sharkmouth

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I had an interesting conversation with an audio manufacturer here in Aus today & when I said to him that I thought servers would be a thing of the past shortly he was very interested in how I came to that conclusion. He also agreed with me. My logic is that all a dac needs is a render capability accompanied with a nas & with ROON you are up & running with a top tier software.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

Not so sure Kevin.

What I am finding out is that POWER matters most. Local playback trashes NAS too and does not need bandaids to cure ills. Ethernet has its issues too

If you want native playback, then lower power and RAM is better and audiophile Linux trumps all. If upsampling, then you need power chips and have to design bandaids to deal with the polluting offshoots.

The NAS/Renderer approach emphasizes convenience over absolute SQ....but may become the default due to elegance.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

Norman, but, has it really been developed. I understand what you are saying & the direction you are coming from but I also think there is huge room to move here. I too have power for my amps, power for my modem, power for my server & yes it does make a difference, in design & implementation. If the power is not right from the start & you are able, you may be lucky enough to rescue it with an alternative power source. But what say if you were to give a top tier dac rendering capabilities & added a nas. All the delivery topologies have their inherent design flaws, but I think we are about to see a shift coming.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

My Lumin A1 is all the digital I need.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

sharkmouth said:
Norman, but, has it really been developed. I understand what you are saying & the direction you are coming from but I also think there is huge room to move here. I too have power for my amps, power for my modem, power for my server & yes it does make a difference, in design & implementation. If the power is not right from the start & you are able, you may be lucky enough to rescue it with an alternative power source. But what say if you were to give a top tier dac rendering capabilities & added a nas. All the delivery topologies have their inherent design flaws, but I think we are about to see a shift coming.
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Commercially, very few go OTT. Examples being the SGM server, for example. It's bespoke LPSUs to the various subsystems, delivering lowest ripple cleanest power and NOT having more than one subsystem drawing power at the same time as another from the same power delivery unit. On top of that, NAS(es) are already dirty/un-(audio) optimised computers. Local (memory) playback beats that every time, then even the type of drives used...spinners are Noisy polluters, SSDs suffer from similar data movement for constant Optimization of storage (good for mainstream computers, bad for audio).

SD cards dont do this constant data reshuffle, but are limited in size and control ergonomics. Paul Pang sells very expensive SSDs where he attaches a circuit board and clocks to each one. I hear this makes a significant improvement. People like the Memory Player do software processing that removes "Embedded jitter", all those surfeit zeros that mess up timing, etc.

There is a lot of work to do out there to get to Nirvana and I do see progress....mainly from manufacturers becoming more fanatical about power.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

sharkmouth said:
I had an interesting conversation with an audio manufacturer here in Aus today & when I said to him that I thought servers would be a thing of the past shortly he was very interested in how I came to that conclusion. He also agreed with me. My logic is that all a dac needs is a render capability accompanied with a nas & with ROON you are up & running with a top tier software.
Click to expand...

Kevin - the adaptation of network cards into DAC's is a natural evolution. But, doesn't this just make them fancy streamers? You see the integration of network cards into DAC's today with PS Audio, DCS, MSB, NAIM, Ayre, etc. Hell, even the new T+A MP3100HV has a built in network card. All the Lumin's and the Aurender A10 essentially tackle it the other way around (network first, DAC second). Roon is the shizzle too and takes the pressure off manufacturers to invest thousands into developing their own custom app. That being said, a lot of people are very happy with their DAC X and most DAC's prior to a year or so ago wouldn't have built in network capabilities.

But I agree with you, it's going to become the norm.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

I am not going to argue server vs. renderer, but after living with Roon and Tidal for 2 weeks now I would argue that a NAS may not be part of the equation. I have not put in a CD or played a hi-res file in many days...
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

For me I can see the swing of the integrated back into fame in a big way, quite simply because it is simplicity & with the likes of Gryphon making excellent integrateds etc, this too will start another direction where a lot of people will go the one box direction as the sound will be just as good as separates. So within these parameters, like Mike mentions, it will become the norm of which I can see the the server getting less love. As for power, class D anyone? The toroidal needs to be replaced, it's a dinosaur, & weighs like one.
 
Re: Digital, wherethefuckarewee & what tribe are you in?

NAS to Dedicated PC (JRMC) to Async USB Dac has been working for me now for several years, absolutely superbly I might ad. I'm for sure open to another better faster cheaper solution, but thus far not a one has nudged me off where I'm happily setting.
 
Re: Digital, where are we & what tribe are you in?

I think we are in an era of execution over dogma at the top of the food chain. there are a few choices of roads to go down and we are not at a point where path trumps precision of execution.

fast forward a couple of years and dogma may separate things into clear hierarchy......but right now lots of fingers being licked and stuck into the air for predictions I think.....with expected degree of accuracy as in a whirlwind.

i'll be at RMAF this weekend and see which way it sounds like the wind is blowing. I know how it's blowing in my room.

specifically; the MSB Select II will soon have a Roon-ready renderer to try, and the SGM has a few enhancements coming, so these things are not static. I've not heard any digital touch what these are doing here now, but i'm open to that happening.

and I have a new tt coming which pushes that reference out there a ways further.

it's all about execution.......from where I sit.
 
Re: Digital, where are we & what tribe are you in?

Mike Lavigne said:
specifically; the MSB Select II will soon have a Roon-ready renderer to try, and the SGM has a few enhancements coming, so these things are not static. I've not heard any digital touch what these are doing here now, but i'm open to that happening.

Have you compared the SGM with the lowly SOtM-200 or even heard the latter in your system?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Digital, where are we & what tribe are you in?

Recently on another forum I had asked members to share their server configuration for computer audio. It was amazing to see that almost nobody had an identical configuration. And this is where the Lumins and Aurenders have an advantage - an optimized hardware recipe backed up by well implemented power supplies. The obvious differences are the cost and lifespan of the servers.

I think the Sonore Micro/Ultra Rendus are a brilliant solution - put together the biggest baddest machine you can get and tuck it away in the basement far away from your audio rack. The rendus sit on your audio rack running an optimized software solution connected over ethernet which isolates the computers from the stereo rig. A network package like Roon adds icing to the cake. Just an example of what can be done these days.
 
Re: Digital, where are we & what tribe are you in?

MPWRZME said:
Mike Lavigne said:
specifically; the MSB Select II will soon have a Roon-ready renderer to try, and the SGM has a few enhancements coming, so these things are not static. I've not heard any digital touch what these are doing here now, but i'm open to that happening.

Have you compared the SGM with the lowly SOtM-200 or even heard the latter in your system?
Click to expand...

other than my previous server, the CAPSv4 w/Elberoth mods, I've not compared the SGM to any other servers. I've not personally investigated other servers out there and am not familiar with the SOtM-200.

I have continually compared the SGM and various dacs to my analog, and it has acquitted itself very nicely.
Click to expand...
 
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