Different speakers or just an unforgiving room?

Duke L manufacturers speakers.

Yes, and unfortunately that means my perspective is likely to be skewed... I tend to mostly look for the role speakers might play in this or that problem. I'm kinda like the guy whose only tool is a hammer, so every problem looks like a nail.

Duke, do you think room EQ would help? Many of the box speakers that I have looked at generally cross over in the 2.5K Hz range. Do you think the problem you described above would be a problem with other speaker brands that x-over at that frequency?

This is just my opinion:

I'd never want to use room EQ north of 200 Hz. If you do use any EQ north of 200 Hz, I'd strongly suggest doing the exact same thing to both speakers, rather than EQing them independently (which is part of what I take to be implied by the term "room EQ"). Don't screw up the first-arrival sound for the sake of what an ungated omnidirectional microphone is telling you.

That being said, it's probably possible to come up with a gentle "compromise" curve that introduces some on-axis dippage at the lower end of the tweeter's range. Many designers do that in their passive crossovers, but it still doesn't fix the discrepancy between the direct and reverberant sound in that region, which becomes more pronounced as the midwoofer cone becomes bigger and/or stiffer. Imo if this is indeed what's going on, it would be an acoustic problem that calls for an acoustic solution, and that has to happen at the speaker design stage; it really can't be fixed via EQ'd after the fact.

One of the best stand-mount speakers I can recall was the sadly-discontinued Cliffhanger Bulldog. It was a three-way in a league where just about everything else was a two-way. The fairly large dome midrange in between the woofer and tweeter gave a smoother off-axis response than most two-ways, which imo matters. Or you might look at two-ways that use a smooth shallow waveguide around the tweeter, which reduces the radiation pattern discrepancy in the crossover region. These are becoming more widely used. In my experience, beware of "stepped" (as opposed to smooth-sided) waveguides, as they're using diffraction to get a more uniform radiation pattern, and imo that creates more problems than it solves. The devil is in the details.

Excellent advice, Duke!

Thank you Jim! That means a lot coming from you.
 
In the meantime, I have a friend who has kindly offered to loan me a pair of Spatial Audio M1 Turbos to see what difference an open backed speaker option might make, versus a cabinet. From what I have read they are more forgiving of room acoustics – I’m intrigued to find out.

If the problem is indeed off-axis radiation pattern "flare" at the bottom end of the tweeter's range, then the Spatials should be a significant improvement in that area, as they have very good radiation pattern uniformity in the forward hemisphere. I have a great deal of respect for Clayton Shaw as a designer and as a person.

In a different setup, where the direct sound was more dominant, the Focals would really shine. Focal is very highly respected among recording engineers for their nearfield monitors.
 
IMO the OP should treat a little the room; if the problem persists try some Dynaudio C1, which are much smoother than Focals.
 

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Hi Anatta - thanks for the suggestion. I know I should do my own homework here but should I be looking at the three green/red/blue lines (referring I guess to on axis, 10deg and 30deg off-axis) being relatively grouped together as meaning there is no flare up? I'm assuming a flare up being what I understand as that slightly discordant, almost jarring sound?

Forgive me, but I've not seen one of these graphs before, but I assume the red line starting at ~20 Hz is joined to the green and blue and the axis starts to only make a difference when it gets about 1 kHz?

Cheers...Rod

(I have a feeling I hear an audible "Uh-oh" from this thread at this question!)
 
I think Duke and Face's answers are the most helpful. Focals seem to do best in damp rooms. Recently I heard some big Focals (forget exactly which model) in Boulder Amplifier's listening room, which is extremely damp, way more than most any room I've ever been in and the Focals sounded great. Previously they tried Wilsons and said they sounded really dead, not good at all. It's really important to take the dispersion pattern of the speaker and the character of your room into account when choosing speakers. Personally, I prefer speakers with a tighter dispersion pattern which give you more direct vs reflected sound and does not require as much room treatment to sound optimal. They should also have a smooth off-axis response which can be seen in polar response graphs. In the case of the Focal you can tell from the size and driver type that it's not really possible for them to have a smooth off axis response at the crossover point, which Duke explained very well. One solution to this for the Focal would be a waveguide for the tweeter that matches the dispersion pattern to the woofer at the crossover point.

tl/dr... more room treatments or different speakers. :)
 
You mention bare floors and no drapes and reflection points a simple and cost free option to see if it helps is just lay or hang a few blankets in the different spots and see if it helps. A rug has helped my room a lot. Then buy the million dollar cables

Yes, a rug can help a lot. Natural fiber is best, e.g., wool. The tonal balance, especially in the highs, may change quite a bit.
 
I had the same problem with the vocal and a carpet between the speakers solved the problem mostly.
 
IMO the OP should treat a little the room; if the problem persists try some Dynaudio C1, which are much smoother than Focals.

I cannot stand C1 and feel they are shouty, but Focal's sound much smoother to me. This shows how we all hear things differently and how important synergy between speakers and electronics is.
 
I heard some focals at my arc dealer last weekend. Amazing. Crystal clear and smooth like a mountain stream. Not shouty at all. I was impressed.
 
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