DeVore Super 8's or Nine lean ?

Jerome W

Jerome W

Active member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
1,289
Location
Near Paris, France
Hello folks,

I have had the Super 8's in one of my systems for 2 years now.
My listening pleasure of them decreased slowly without being able to identify why.
One day I compared the small Harbeth P3ESR to the 8's and the Harbeth were much better for everything.
I decided to sell the Super 8's.
I read Kev's opinion about some kind of leanness in the bass and the mids of the 8's and the 9's and I thought : yes. That's it. The 8's are rather lean in these frequencies and that's why I lost my listening pleasure of them.
Then I decided to try my Jadis DA30, class A 2 x 30 W EL34 amplifier and things improved clearly. But still not to a level allowing me to desire to keep them.
So I finally thought : they might need the current of a good SS amp and tone controls.
So I put my McIntosh MA5100 on duty with them. And.....Miracle !!!!
Now I get a really decent bass and full and weighty mids.
No wonder John often demo them with Naim gear.
Amazingly, I would say that the Super 8's ( and probably the Nine's) are NOT tube friendly at all ! My big Harbeths of 83dB are much more tube friendly !
With tubes, the Super 8's start to sing at a rather high volume and sound pretty flat at moderate ones. But even at high volumes, there is still something "missing".
With good SS, they sing at low volumes. And they sound FULL.

I guess that if you use the Super 8's with little tube amps and success, then you must be using them in small rooms. Like John said, he designed them for his bedroom.
In standard living rooms, they really need power.

Do not trust specifications too much !


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This makes sense Jerome. When I've heard them at demos, SS was always used. Strange to design a speaker which looks to be very tube friendly, but then ultimately sounds best with and demoed with solid state.

I know Joe loves his Harbeth with tube amps as well.
 
Jerome. Did you bring the super 8 to your main listening room ? Power them with your CCQ? Curious to know.
 
Paul said:
Jerome. Did you bring the super 8 to your main listening room ? Power them with your CCQ? Curious to know.
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Paul,
I tried once. The room is made in such a way that the Super 8's were too far from the rear wall. Bass was completely absent.


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Great info Jerome. It's best to try different amps on speakers and pick the best match. Everything makes a difference.

I absolutely LOVE my 40.1's, right now my Hegel H30 is a match made in heaven on them.


Mike said:
This makes sense Jerome. When I've heard them at demos, SS was always used. Strange to design a speaker which looks to be very tube friendly, but then ultimately sounds best with and demoed with solid state.

I know Joe loves his Harbeth with tube amps as well.
Click to expand...
 
Why would anyone even consider Super 8's for anything other than a small to medium room? Their physical size would tell you right away that they are not large enough to fill a large room with bass. I use mine in a 15 x 15 family room that is open on one wall to the kitchen. Powered by my little 15 watt Leben tube integrated and placed 2 feet off the front wall there is no shortage of bass. If i utilize the bass boost button on the Leben, bass is full even at low volumes. When i put them in my main listening room that is much larger of course they lack. Of course using SS would push them better. Don't read too much into seeing SS at demos. Maybe the dealer was promoting the SS gear. My friend just purchased a used pair from Cucumber Jones and when he asked Jonathan at Tone for an amp recommendation he said Leben.
This must be pick on Devore week.
 
This is such an odd thread. It seems almost pointless with the exception of slagging Devore. John clearly has built his speakers with tube amps in mind. Hell he knew ken shindo personally - I don't think you did Jerome.

The super 8's if you know anything at all were built to work in small new york apartments. If I remember correctly Jerome you had them in a loft with a vast opening to a down stairs room behind them. That is far from a small New York apartment.

You have a real issue with understanding how products are made and intended to be used. You have proven this with your Harbeth comments and Alan Shaw's rebuttal. Insulting John devores products based on using them in situations for which they were not intended. And finally using shindo amps with speakers that ken would never use them with nor did he build them for.
 
Cucumber_jones said:
This is such an odd thread. It seems almost pointless with the exception of slagging Devore. John clearly has built his speakers with tube amps in mind. Hell he knew ken shindo personally - I don't think you did Jerome.

The super 8's if you know anything at all were built to work in small new york apartments. If I remember correctly Jerome you had them in a loft with a vast opening to a down stairs room behind them. That is far from a small New York apartment.

You have a real issue with understanding how products are made and intended to be used. You have proven this with your Harbeth comments and Alan Shaw's rebuttal. Insulting John devores products based on using them in situations for which they were not intended. And finally using shindo amps with speakers that ken would never use them with nor did he build them for.
Click to expand...

WOW !
Bashing comes again while this post was precisely intended to promote the Super 8's and eventually the Nine's.

I would suggest you to read again my original post.

Kev313 used the Super 8's (and the Nine's?) in a room as intended by DeVore : not too large.
He found them lean in the bass and in the mids. I came to the same conclusion while trying the DeVore in various rooms, including normal size ones and getting always this problem, but actually trying them with various tube amps and never trying SS amps.

The very tiny P3ESR had more bass resolution and extension when used side by side with the Super 8's.

But after all those experiences and the knowledge gained, I decided to try the Super 8's with an SS amp and they revealed themselves ! They are indeed wonderful speakers as long as you do not use tube amps ( I tried 2 different Shindo with them, a 225, the Mac 1500, the Manley Snappers and the Jadis DA30 !!!! ).

Now I am not saying that they do not work with Leben but I seriously doubt that they would not have the same issues driving the Super 8's.
If they work with Leben, that will be either in a very small room and very close to the rear wall and even with that, they will need the bass boost on the amp to get out of this leanness.

So my post was not to slag DeVore. The opposite. It was made to point that the Super 8's is a superb speaker. But it needs the juice of SS amps and be close to the rear wall. (They have been often demoed by John with Naim amps ! ). I thought that this information could be useful to Super 8's owners who experiment the same troubles as Kev313 and me had with them.

You mind must be really tortured to see this thread as slagging DeVore.
About the returning comments of my Harbeth and Shindo, they are pointless to this thread and show only the anger you can have against me.
Wether it pleases you or not, the M40.1 and the CCQ are just the best system to me. No matter the price. And what Shindo can think of this association is a no subject to me.

On an other subject, I listened yesterday to the 300B Triode Spirit of JC VERDIER. 2 x 6 W of SET magic. It was absolutely stunning on 92dB speakers. The amp is owned by a very close friend of the late JC Verdier, who knows a lot too when it comes to tubes and speakers. The amp has a huge huge power supply compared to its rated power. The transfos are almost as big as the ones of the 2301's ! And guess what ? The amp really does not seem to be a 6W amp. You get the feeling to listen to a 300W amp while the speakers were not really ultra efficient. It is super fast and punchy.

Verdier used to say something close to this : " if you want to know how it works, do not read the specs. They do not say much about final musicality. You have to try by yourself. Rated power means nothing. There are much more elements that play a role in the coupling of an amp and a speaker. The only way to know how they will sound together is to try".

Well I try. Each time that I am not satisfied.
By trying, I gain real Experience while your knowledge lies on the manufacturer's claims.
And in this particular case I found the solution.
Because it is not said by DeVore, I should keep the finding for me ?

( On the DeVore web site gallery, you will find many images of Super 8's used in very large rooms....)





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Jérôme, good for you for stepping outside of the square & using your ears, after all, it is to our subjective tastes.
Chris, you having a bad day or just reading it wrong?
 
+1 Good Reply Jérome and thank you for being forthright with your observations--it is indeed pity some posters have so much misguided Angst

it is after all pleasurable hobby--lest they've forgotten.

Bruce
 
Look at those Super 8's in an open cathedral room like mine :

hero_group.jpg

Now that I have the MA5100 on duty with them, even at low volume, they do fill my very large living room with stunning and weighty natural sound. Even at low volume ! Eyes closed you could think that you are listening to very large and tall speakers.
Once again, something I never got with my various tube amps.
 
Jerome W said:
Now that I have the MA5100 on duty with them, even at low volume, they do fill my very large living room with stunning and weighty natural sound. Even at low volume ! Eyes closed you could think that you are listening to very large and tall speakers.
Once again, something I never got with my various tube amps.
Click to expand...

Happy for you Jerome :) Time to hear the O/96 ~!!!! ;)

Jerome W said:
An other pair of Super 8's in a "tiny" room ! :

View attachment 8571View attachment 8571
Click to expand...

The dealer pic don't count ;)
 
Jerome...well done with your response. Not sure why your post got such a response from Katoomer and Cucumber Jones.

Gents ...this site is about sharing our experiences. Jerome was talking about his specific experiences in his rooms. Not sure why that riled you guys up and I would hope you have enough confidence in your own choices without feeling threatened by Jerome's observations (which were his observations and not in any way slagging DeVore as I read them).

Jerome...keep up the good work :D
 
I guess what "riled me up" as you put it was Jerome's conclusion that "Super 8's are not at all tube friendly". I too have tried about a half dozen different amps "SS and tube" in big and small rooms. My "observation" has been that they sound best with
the Leben. But would that lead me to say they are not at all SS friendly? No.
I'll leave the long winded rebuttal to others.
 
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