Deleted/Rejected/Banned by WBF?

[Mike]

To all the manufacturers who have been deleted, banned, rejected or otherwise marginalized by WBF (like Gary Koh of Genesis recently), you are welcome here! For free! Come and join the discussions and tell us what you have going on!

No ransom takers here.

 

[Hear Here]

I am always keen to read about products, old or new, but I'd like to know if the writer is "trade" or "one of us"! If trade (manufacturer, dealer, etc), is this fact displayed on his avatar at the left side of the text? We should be aware that there may be (unlikely no doubt) a vested interest in promoting a particular product or brand. On the other hand, a manufacturer is better placed to answer a technocal question about one of his products - again, it's good for readers to know this without relying on the author to state his status at the end of each post. Thanks.

 

[Mike]

I am always keen to read about products, old or new, but I'd like to know if the writer is "trade" or "one of us"! If trade (manufacturer, dealer, etc), is this fact displayed on his avatar at the left side of the text? We should be aware that there may be (unlikely no doubt) a vested interest in promoting a particular product or brand. On the other hand, a manufacturer is better placed to answer a technocal question about one of his products - again, it's good for readers to know this without relying on the author to state his status at the end of each post. Thanks.

Agreed. I think we do a good job watching that. But Gary is a friend and I don’t like what they did to such a nice guy. We’ve communicated and I’ve welcomed him here (and all the others). For free.

 

[Adyc]

Agreed. I think we do a good job watching that. But Gary is a friend and I don’t like what they did to such a nice guy. We’ve communicated and I’ve welcomed him here (and all the others). For free.

It sounds like WBF bans and does not welcome manufacturers if they do not advertise there.

 

[Nikhil]

It sounds like WBF bans and does not welcome manufacturers if they do not advertise there.

WBF does not welcome anyone who does not genuflect to their sacred cows.


.

 

[treitz3]

It sounds like WBF bans and does not welcome manufacturers if they do not advertise there.

That is an incorrect and very misleading assumption. All manufacturers are allowed and welcomed to post on the WBF. That said, A dealer, distributor or manufacturer who is not currently in an advertising relationship with the forum may not post a price, quantity or other term of sale or transaction for, or describe with specificity, a product, component or service.

Allowing a dealer, manufacturer or distributor to bypass this is simply unfair to those who do pay to advertise or sponsor their product(s).

Unfortunately, business is bad in this economy, and we couldn't afford the sponsorship that could keep the Genesis sub-forum going.

There are perks to being an advertiser on the WBF, and having their own sub-forum, specifically for Genesis products is/was one of them.

I consider Gary and Carol friends and I hate this for them. I also wish for them a turn around in business, as they have a great company, a newer and more affordable speaker that is getting rave reviews, and quite the reputation. Gary has never been one to shy away from sharing his knowledge of this great hobby and he is still welcome to post.

Tom

 

[mep]

It's a pay to play business model for manufacturers on WBF

 

[Phil A]

It's a shame with any product or service when one is treated in such a manner. That applies to forums, manufacturers, etc. It's not a good situation to create such a response and environment. Many moons ago, I received a BS answer from a well know manufacturer (and generally one which does provide good service) about an issue which they could have been more honest about (and saved me time and effort of lugging a heavy amplifier to ship off to them). It certainly did not impress me or create a feeling of wanting to buy future products (it didn't stop from recommending one of their used older products for a friend who it would be good for). You know what they say - "there's never a second chance to create a first impression." It just pays to tell it like it is. Unfortunately, in today's world, most things boil down to money over everything else. I appreciate to openess here to express an opinion (everyone has one).

 

[treitz3]

It's a shame with any product or service when one is treated in such a manner.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are, however, not entitled to their own set of facts.

The WBF is one of the most popular and visited audio forums out there, judging by pretty much any parameter. With such, there are a plethora of things that come along with that kind of responsibility. Controlling spammers, hackers and what not, then there are the considerable financial aspects that you may not have considered for such a forum. I don't know how many significant server upgrades we have had over the years, but some of them were expensive. Very expensive. We have grown so much, that yet another one may in order again. This does not come to the owners of WBF for free. Nor do the seemingly endless IT aspects, keeping things rolling smooth and figuring out the slowdowns, glitches, attacks, backups, issues, etc..

So, with gain, comes pain. It was introduced years ago for members to contribute, but that alone didn't cut it when it came to growth. We didn't want to become like AG, so we launched an advertising program. This coincides with a dedicated sub-forum and other perks that non-advertisers do not get, nor are privy too. Those manufacturers, distributors and dealers have the OPTION to advertise their products in detail and use the WBF to assist in sales or promote their wares.

That said, if you want to continue bashing the WBF here, so be it. But at least know what's going on first, before spouting falsehoods and spreading things that are simply not true.

Case in point to those who think that this may be unfair - Please allow me to ask of you this;

If you ran and owned a magazine, would you run an ad for a dealer, manufacturer or distributor for absolutely no cost? I know the answer, so if this is the case, why is the WBF being singled out on this? I find it ingenuine.

Tom

 

[Mike]

A magazine has actual hard costs - paid reviewers, printing costs, distribution costs, costs covering trade shows, overhead, staff.

Running a forum has some expensive to it, but you can mitigate those costs letting Google run the ads through Adsense. You may see ads for lawn mowers and dish washers, but it keeps things clean.

News flash: I used to run ads for industry here. What happened? I would get calls constantly: “that guy said our new cable wasn’t good, BAN HIM! Delete his post!!”

You can say “oh we wouldn’t do that”, but paid advertisers have sway.

If we truly want to grow the hobby, honestly, we need to not only allow, but encourage manufacturers to join and participate.

Dealers and distributors should be allowed but keep a close eye on them. One dealer here was banned because he kept bashing VPI turntables. Someone would post a pic of a new VPI turntable and he would instantly jump in and say “they suck, buy the acoustic signature that I sell instead.” That’s not cool and I never see that behavior from manufacturers.

 

[Ritmo]

I got banned at WBF and still don’t know why. And, frankly, don’t care.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are, however, not entitled to their own set of facts.

The WBF is one of the most popular and visited audio forums out there, judging by pretty much any parameter. With such, there are a plethora of things that come along with that kind of responsibility. Controlling spammers, hackers and what not, then there are the considerable financial aspects that you may not have considered for such a forum. I don't know how many significant server upgrades we have had over the years, but some of them were expensive. Very expensive. We have grown so much, that yet another one may in order again. This does not come to the owners of WBF for free. Nor do the seemingly endless IT aspects, keeping things rolling smooth and figuring out the slowdowns, glitches, attacks, backups, issues, etc..

So, with gain, comes pain. It was introduced years ago for members to contribute, but that alone didn't cut it when it came to growth. We didn't want to become like AG, so we launched an advertising program. This coincides with a dedicated sub-forum and other perks that non-advertisers do not get, nor are privy too. Those manufacturers, distributors and dealers have the OPTION to advertise their products in detail and use the WBF to assist in sales or promote their wares.

That said, if you want to continue bashing the WBF here, so be it. But at least know what's going on first, before spouting falsehoods and spreading things that are simply not true.

Case in point to those who think that this may be unfair - Please allow me to ask of you this;

If you ran and owned a magazine, would you run an ad for a dealer, manufacturer or distributor for absolutely no cost? I know the answer, so if this is the case, why is the WBF being singled out on this? I find it ingenuine.

Tom

No doubt WBF is popular. You need to know WBF is one of the most user unfriendly forums I've been on. So it baffles me what upgrades you are talking about. Your navigation is horrible, no links to provide quicker access or save your spot. If I go to a 10 page thread and maybe last visit it was 3 pages I'd have to scroll the thread to see where I left off. No links on the pages to take you back to where you were. I just don't go there for the poor navigation and accessibility. I wasn't going to join in this conversation but please your site is functionally near broke.

 

[garylkoh]

To put the record straight, neither my sister Carol nor I was banned from WBF. I had scaled down my participation there after Amir got banned. Now, I don't AT ALL agree with Amir's views, but he was an intelligent, respectful and challenging debating partner. If we really want to grow this hobby, we need to welcome the diversity. All participants should be treated equally. If the manufacturers and advertisers are so insecure as to not want to include Genesis to post, so be it.

We engage with WBF members who were interested in our products, and are interested in meet-ups at shows. That's why we only posted in the Genesis forum there. After posting a link to a review that I received for the G7 Samba, Carolyn was told that "*all* of your posts including the most recent one is tantamount to advertising for Genesis". *emphasis* mine. and the Genesis forum was removed even before she could respond. If you are not a sponsor, you can't even post Industry Events and Announcements in their Industry Events and Announcements forum.

 

[Adyc]

To put the record straight, neither my sister Carol nor I was banned from WBF. I had scaled down my participation there after Amir got banned. Now, I don't AT ALL agree with Amir's views, but he was an intelligent, respectful and challenging debating partner. If we really want to grow this hobby, we need to welcome the diversity. All participants should be treated equally. If the manufacturers and advertisers are so insecure as to not want to include Genesis to post, so be it.

We engage with WBF members who were interested in our products, and are interested in meet-ups at shows. That's why we only posted in the Genesis forum there. After posting a link to a review that I received for the G7 Samba, Carolyn was told that "*all* of your posts including the most recent one is tantamount to advertising for Genesis". *emphasis* mine. and the Genesis forum was removed even before she could respond. If you are not a sponsor, you can't even post Industry Events and Announcements in their Industry Events and Announcements forum.

That was bad. So if a manufacturer stops advertising, its sub forum will be removed?

 

[Mike]

That was bad. So if a manufacturer stops advertising, its sub forum will be removed?

yup. All that work - poof! Gone.

Just asked my guys to create a sub forum for:

Genesis Advanced Technologies​