DAC/ Streamer alternative for the summer house

[Kuoppis]

i geuss they might be interested as ALL opinions matter.

my moniker makes me no more have a valid opinion than you or the next person, all I’m doing is sharing a view. You might not be my target audience, fine.

I know what goes on in the HiFi industry and i was explaining that.

but seeing as you are quoting lots of the reviews it seems to me that you take them at face value. All I’m saying is you should exercise caution. I think listening yourself as you say, is always the way to do it. Cheers

So, if I’m not your target audience, why are you then posting in my thread, about my system? Sorry to say, but a lots of what you say makes very little sense.

And btw, all of us on this forum know what’s going on in the Hifi industry. It’s one of our hobbies.

PS: There’s a high likelihood it’s for a reason that your reviews are not in mags...


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[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

you are posting about a product you really like - fine - but I’m injecting an alternate view for the sake of contributing to people who read this.
Some might not know what’s going on at the business level. The reason my reviews aren’t in mags is I’m not a mag based platform. But now you are getting personal where I never have!

 

[Kuoppis]

A little more detail would have been useful, on why exactly you believe this combo of other products is better.

Just a blanket statement without a comparison is not really helpful.

 

[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

Yeah, but my thread, and I don’t care about your nonsense.

You’re not half as knowledgeable you think you are, and not really revealing any secrets here. Everyone knows how the industry works. You’re just a bit full of yourself.


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sorry one for ignore me thinks.

 

[Kuoppis]

Finally.

 

[Kuoppis]

For what’s it worth, here’s an excerpt from Martin Colloms’ review:

“It was clearly performing well up in the class of £15,000 – £25,000 streamer/DACs. Stereo images were wide and deep, with pin point focus that was especially noticeable in the treble. The whole soundstage had a sparkling clarity, resolution was high and the sound quality was packed with subtle detail. Transients were considered very good: crisp and clear with an upbeat character and a sense of high precision.” ... “Such high performance deserves a HIFICRITIC Audio Excellence rating.”

I think that’s rather high praise from someone who’s reviewed quite a few products.


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[Kuoppis]

Not seeing any reviews as an absolute, rather as an addition to developing an informed view. Own ears and system are always the most relevant measures.

But after a couple of days with this sleek aluminum box, I’d argue there’s little you can do wrong with the Klimax DS/3 Katalyst, if you don’t need more flexibility with interfaces (for that there’s the DSM version). The stability of this implementation is simply stunning. I now remember why I fell in love with the Linn sound the first time around. Here’s all the British PRaT at hand you can ever dream of.

Here’s Dan Worth’s take from Hifi Pig:
“I’d like to convey my admiration for the way the Linn deals with jazz; I’m not a huge fan at all of the newer funky jazz or any of its other derivatives, I’m more in favour of traditional jazz, Anker Bilk, Frank Sinatra, John Venturi, Earl Hines etc. I remember when my brother-in-law used to have a shop in London and he sold LP12’s and the Klimax DS gave me fond memories of the Sondek setup, the undeniable musicality and bounciness it lent to jazz and the playfulness it conveys still to this day is pretty much unrivalled by any other deck. I don’t know how Linn have managed it but I have searched and searched and I cannot find where inside the DS they have managed to hide the LP12 and it seems that Linn are being very tight lipped about this too!” ... “Build Quality: Absolutely stunning!” .... “Sound Quality: Heart felt, engaging and engrossing, very transparent and insightful.” ... “Pros: Bespoke parts throughout. Incredible attention to detail, physically and sound-wise. Exceptional DAC integration. Genre flexibility. Transparent and engaging. Most of all musical!”

Full review: https://hifipig.com/linn-klimax-ds-katalyst-dedicated-streamer/

Proof-in-the-pudding (shared by Nikhil), sounds absolutely amazing:

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[Kuoppis]

Excerpts from German Magazine Audio 11/16 review:

“The DA converter is crucial for the sound of a streamer. Its theoretical resolution is determined by the clock frequency and the number of quantization levels. Linn goes extremely far with the so-called Katalyst DAC Architecture used in the new Klimax. With a clock frequency of 6.144 megahertz, the new Klimax is above the usual frequency for DSD128. And that is already twice as high as the original SACD format. In addition, the new Klimax does not work with the usual one-bit DSD resolution, but with 6-bit, which corresponds to 64 instead of 2 quantization levels.”

“The new thing about the Klimax DS/3 and Klimax DSM is the “Katalyst DAC Architecture”. This digital-to-analog converter architecture consists of several components. First, an upsampler goes to work, which converts the original signal to 768 kHz/ 35 bits. The resulting signal travels with 32-bit accuracy into a modulator, which converts it into a 6-bit signal with a clock frequency of 6.144 megahertz. This signal is converted into an analog signal by 6 one-bit signals and then processed by an extremely low-noise analog output stage for forwarding. A 6-bit DA converter with a clock frequency of 6.144 MHz offers an enormous resolution that is theoretically 32 times higher (5 instead of 1 bit) than the resolution of DSD128 with a 5.6448 MHz clock.”

“The quality of the decoder conceived by Linn-minds is also evident from the fact that no hum component disturbs the good result. "I have never seen such a clean spectrum," amazed laboratory assistant Florian Goisl. Which raises the question to what extent the noise remaining in the test lab measurements and the minimal residual distortion might come from the sinfully expensive audio precision measuring device. One thing is clear: compared to the predecessor, the third generation of the Klimax has made a technical step forward.”

“According to good old high-end criteria, the older DS already offered pretty much everything you could ask for in terms of contour, transparency, space or details. The new one also brings incredible clarity and a matter of course. In this way, it truly pushes its predecessor off the throne. The king is dead, long live the king!”


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[Kuoppis]

In reference to an earlier post eluding to Chord Dave, the DS/3 has an up-sampler already in-built in the Katalyst architecture. This means that pretty much everything you stream becomes high-res.

To achieve that with the Dave you would need to include the MScaler into the package, which adds to the cost.


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[Kuoppis]

Just for the fun of it, installed the Linn Klimax into my main system to test it with the better ICs, RJ45 cable, and grounding in my main system.

Considerable positive impact, more open, more transparent, less digital bloat. Even though I could not use the Shunyata Alpha NR power cord, as the device does not allow use of chunky plugs.

I can understand why Linn has such a loyal fanbase.

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[Projectman]

i geuss they might be interested as ALL opinions matter.

my moniker makes me no more have a valid opinion than you or the next person, all I’m doing is sharing a view. You might not be my target audience, fine.

I know what goes on in the HiFi industry and i was explaining that.

but seeing as you are quoting lots of the reviews it seems to me that you take them at face value. All I’m saying is you should exercise caution with the big mags but I’m a hobbyist reviewer and can be more honest. I think listening yourself as you say, is always the way to do it. Cheers

ps this is the one I did and I can be really honest as you won’t find it in mags https://www.13thnote.net/2020/02/20/rme-adi-2-dac-review-qutest-killer/

Because you say you are honest we must take you at your word? Every reviewer has an agenda. You should substitute the word “honest” and use “opinion”. An honest man doesn’t boast.

 

[bart]

Just for the fun of it, installed the Linn Klimax into my main system to test it with the better ICs, RJ45 cable, and grounding in my main system.

Considerable positive impact, more open, more transparent, less digital bloat. Even though I could not use the Shunyata Alpha NR power cord, as the device does not allow use of chunky plugs.

I can understand why Linn has such a loyal fanbase.

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We are curious!
Please tell us about how the Linn compares to the Nyquist!

 

[Kuoppis]

We are curious!
Please tell us about how the Linn compares to the Nyquist!

Bart, I think the Linn Klimax DS/3 is rather good. It has a detailed, yet ballsy sound. Gives classical music a very good definition.

Compared to the Nyquist, I think I described it earlier, the Brinkmann sounds yet a bit more refined and natural. And I feel it has a bit more refinement potential through system tweaks.

But today I also tested the DS/3 with a setup CD, and I could clearly hear 20 Hz warble tones. I.e. the low end is rather solid as well.


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[Kuoppis]

Lucky discovery today: I used the Linn with a lower spec Shunyata Venom power cord earlier. Reason being, the Klimax’ aluminum cover overlapping the connectors on the backside does not allow for use of the bulky Oyaide/ Furutech type C16 connectors a lots of high end cables nowadays have.

That cable is good, if you you have a tad bright sounding gear which might benefit from a slight mid/ lower bass boost. However, the Linn DS/3 does not need that. Listening to it in my main system, I felt a bit the opposite. It sounded a bit too phat for my liking.

Browsing better cables with smaller connectors on the interweb, I remembered coming across an older La Rosita cable, when searching for guitar parts in the garage (that’s another story, I’m currently having a British luthier modding a ‘52 re-issue Tele into a Micawber - a thing I have been looking for some time). But back to the power cord.

La Rosita is a small French audio boutique, which started making NOS streamers, when those became a fad about ten years ago. I once had one of their products, and kept the La Rosita aftermarket power cord when I sold the streamer. I found it to be very good for the purpose, offering good dynamics, an even top-to-bottom balance, great clarity across the frequency range and an overall neutral sound. This was long before firms like Shunyata and AQ started to make dedicated source cables.

The only thing with the db system v2 Super PowerCord is, it looks like someone had neutered the family iron. Not sure what the guys were thinking, must be some French thing. The box in the middle is an electrical interference absorber.

With this cable all the Linn Klimax DS/3 benefits come to the fore, as it does not require any pushing in one or the other direction. A very good combination indeed.

The Bach Concertos album by Hilary Hahn sounds really excellent. In fact, it sounded so fantastic I listened to the entire album via the Linn, while having a 30K vinyl rig sitting next to it with a brand new cartridge waiting for burn-in. A bit surprising. OK, I ordered the vinyl as well [emoji3].

Reading up on the La Rosita cable to refresh my memory, I also discovered that it used to be the go-to cable for a number of Linn enthusiasts a couple years back. No wonder it sounded so good. Lucky me, you really never know what you find lurking in your garage.


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[Elberoth]

The thing I like most about the Klimax range is the upgradebility. Basicly every time Linn comes with a new model, you can upgrade your existing Klimax to the latest spec simply by replacing the complete PCB.

What is more - and this idea is simply brilliant - Linn gives you a simple black case with PSU to house your old PCB, so after the upgrade you end up with two fully functional players: your new Klimax, with the latest hardware (say DS3) and your old Klimax (say DS2) housed in a plain case which you can use in your second system. The later is called Klimax (DS1, DS2) Renew.

Many people sell those players at a fraction of a cost of the original Kimax. You can get a Linn Klimax DS2 Renew (so basicly a Linn Klimax is a plain black box) for as little as $3000, which is a trully tremendous value.

 

[Kuoppis]

Adam, you’re spot on. The upgradeability and longevity of the product is a key benefit. As a matter of fact, I started my Linn journey with a DS/0 Renew a decade ago.

Being able to re-use the innards in a Renew makes the cost of an upgrade hurt less. You can either use it in more places or sell it to recoup some cost.

Of course, the Renew is always a generation behind, and it does not sound exactly as the same generation unit in the shielded 10 Kg aluminum housing. But nevertheless, it is a very good way to get into the world of Linn.

An €18.800,- RRP entry ticket in Europe for a new Klimax DS/3 Katalyst definitely is something to stomach. But knowing you will not be left stranded with an old product in a couple years makes it much more palatable.


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[Kuoppis]

The only thing about this upgrade path is that Linn have gotten a bit greedy lately.

When I got my DS/3, I also looked into the option of buying a DS/2 and upgrading it. The cost for the upgrade was 5K in Europe, and 3K for this funny little metal casing with a power supply for the Renew.

IMHO 8K gets into the prohibitive range, as there are good DACs you can buy new for that sort of money. I have also heard that Linn have pretty much destroyed their distribution with their tactics.


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