DAC/ Streamer alternative for the summer house

[Kuoppis]

Today, I got a temporary addition to my system: A Linn Klimax DS/3 with the latest Katalyst platform. At least Alan Sircom was raving about it when it was introduced: https://www.hifiplus.com/articles/linn-klimax-ds-network-music-player/

I have always liked the Linn top range streamers for their solid build quality (weighs 10 kg/ 22 lbs), great engineering and excellent sound. They’re not the latest and greatest related to format support, so still no MQA, but do play everything PCS and DSD in the meantime. And while Linn do have their own apps for it, it’s Roon tested and works like a charm in my system.

Sound is excellent, very detailed, quite organic, good definition in all frequency ranges. From what I remember about the earlier Klimax DS I used to own, the latest Katalyst architecture is definitely an improvement. Yet compared to the Brinkmann the Nyquist sounds more natural and has slightly better detail retrieval. It plays also bit more dramatic and lifelike compared to the Linn. But both are great.

Definitely a nice addition for the summerhouse.


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[Kuoppis]

After warming up a bit the Klimax is really not that bad. Maybe the player was just a bit cold out-of-the-box.

I’m starting to enjoy what I’m hearing [emoji3].


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[Mike]

Very nice. Always loved the Linn streamers.


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[Kuoppis]

Sitting there a while now and fully warmed up, the DS/3 has improved quite a bit. Listening to Janos Starker’s Bach Suites is definitely a pleasure. Detailed, full bodied, dynamic.

Love again these small pictures of the actual devices Roon displays in the bottom right corner. Nice detail.

For comparing two different products Roon is really great, as it allows to set up both products as zones, and run them simultaneously in parallel. Then you just need to switch the input channels of your preamp to and forth to compare. Not much lag in-between.

The Nyquist is still a tad more transparent and open, more natural sounding, and offers a better view into the texture of the Cello. That said, the Brinkmann is also set up with a better power cord, Ethernet cable, and better ICs.

A comparison against the Brinkmann does much more highlight how outstanding the Nyquist is, rather than pointing out deficiencies of the Linn.

I conclude, the Linn Klimax DS/3 is a keeper for the summer house. Going to play in concert with the Pass INT-60 and the Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversaries. There is also a Harbeth option in the Space Optimization SW for the Klimax, will have to try that out. It will be great.


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[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

Sorry to say this but I tried a Linn klimax with a reviewer friend and we both thought the innuos Zenith SE at under half the cash produced a better sound both in resolution and good balance. Using a chord DAVE, ATC amp, and PMC Fact 8. Linn are good with resale values but I don’t think they are value for money against Innuos. IMO Spending this much money on a streamer is not worth it. I’d definetely have gone for an innuos statement

Alan Sircom would say that as he is heavily biased to British brands and he probably didn’t make any comparisons. I always do that and make a to b comparison.

 

[Mike]

Sorry to say this but I tried a Linn klimax with a reviewer friend and we both thought the innuos Zenith SE at under half the cash produced a better sound both in resolution and good balance. Using a chord DAVE, ATC amp, and PMC Fact 8. Linn are good with resale values but I don’t think they are value for money against Innuos. IMO Spending this much money on a streamer is not worth it. I’d definetely have gone for an innuos statement

Alan Sircom would say that as he is heavily biased to British brands and he probably didn’t make any comparisons. I always do that and make a to b comparison.

Is that even a fair comparison? Linn is an all in one streamer. You’re talking digital transport + DAC. Totally different.


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[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

A chord Dave £8k and the innuos Zenith se £5k is about the same money and it was a considerably better combo. I think this linn is more expensive than both

 

[Mike]

A chord Dave £8k and the innuos Zenith se £5k is about the same money and it was a considerably better combo. I think this linn is more expensive than both

And an MSB Discrete with Dual Power base and Roon Renderer module can rival anything in its price range. What’s the point? An all in one is not the same beast as multiple boxes requiring multiple cables, rack space and synergy. Kouppis is likely looking for a single box solution.


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[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

i only go based on doing a to bs which is what my site is about so I try to avoid making comparison with products I don’t test. There are many opinions and products and preferences in HiFi to extrapolate to say one is better than another. I give my opinion then shut up, which I’m now doing. Bw.

 

[Kuoppis]

Sorry to say this but I tried a Linn klimax with a reviewer friend and we both thought the innuos Zenith SE at under half the cash produced a better sound both in resolution and good balance. Using a chord DAVE, ATC amp, and PMC Fact 8. Linn are good with resale values but I don’t think they are value for money against Innuos. IMO Spending this much money on a streamer is not worth it. I’d definetely have gone for an innuos statement

Alan Sircom would say that as he is heavily biased to British brands and he probably didn’t make any comparisons. I always do that and make a to b comparison.

Well, appreciate your thoughts. But it’s not just Alan Sircom, it’s basically experienced reviewers from most leading audio magazines in Europe, Asia and the US, if you are able to read more languages than English that is. And I for my part would tend to trust rather the renown, than the self-proclaimed reviewers.

But for my judgment I do not even need reviewers, I listen for myself. I still prefer the Nyquist for my main system, but the Linn is IMHO not far behind. And Linn has actually created the streamer product category in 2007, way before others thought about Ethernet in high-end audio. Compared to the Dave it has a slightly darker sound, it’s a question of preference what you like.

A word of caution: Please don’t tell people with high-end systems you have seriously tested something with gear as diminutive as the PMC Fact 8. You don’t hear half the frequency range in either direction. I would recommend to get the basics in place, before trying to lecture others.

And as Mike says, you are comparing apples and pears.


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[Kuoppis]

A chord Dave £8k and the innuos Zenith se £5k is about the same money and it was a considerably better combo. I think this linn is more expensive than both

DS/3 is €18K+ in Germany.


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[Kuoppis]

And an MSB Discrete with Dual Power base and Roon Renderer module can rival anything in its price range. What’s the point? An all in one is not the same beast as multiple boxes requiring multiple cables, rack space and synergy. Kouppis is likely looking for a single box solution.


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That is a good summary. I don’t actually need a DAC with multiple inputs, but a streamer that works well directly with Tidal & Co. For that Linn is the key contender.

And as I am space constrained, a one-box solution is key. What they have done nicely in the Katalyst platform in addition to the excellent custom-built DAC and FPGA with a precision clock, is miniaturization. They do have separate power supplies for different functions within the same casing.

If looking into a new DAC, it would be a pimped-up MSB Premier, but I’m mentally not there yet to put so much money into a DAC.


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[Jack]

How would the Lumin X-1 fit in the equation in terms of function and space in the Summer House setting as opposed to the Linn? With the Lumin you get Peter which to me would be a plus.

 

[Kuoppis]

Hi Jack, I have not had the X1 in my system, but based on what I am hearing it might be about the level of DS/3. It supports more formats (MQA), but also requires a separate power supply.

For streaming Linn is still the reference to beat.


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[Jack]

If your happy with it that's all that matters in the end.

 

[Kuoppis]

One additional benefit of the Linns is the absolutely incredible stability of the platform over the years. You buy once, and keep updating the product when new versions or features arrive.

I had my first Linn Klimax about ten years back, but then thought USB is the way to go and bought a Meitner DAC. Fast forward, Linn was right, and Ethernet is the more stable interface with less interferences (I’m also connecting the Nyquist over Ethernet). Of course, the DS/3 is technically not the same product as the DS/0 was ten years ago, and way improved over the original and the versions in-between. But essentially, the platform is the same.

The nice thing is, while definitely not cheap, it provides a continuous business model for Linn, the dealer, and the user. They do not allow consumers to send in products for an upgrade. The model is sustainable, and network effects apply. Linn maintains its customer base, the dealer is not limited to sell and forget, and the end-customer does not get stranded with an obsolete product every couple of years. I personally like that.


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[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

Well, appreciate your thoughts. But it’s not just Alan Sircom, it’s basically experienced reviewers from most leading audio magazines in Europe, Asia and the US, if you are able to read more languages than English that is. And I for my part would tend to trust rather the renown, than the self-proclaimed reviewers.

But for my judgment I do not even need reviewers, I listen for myself. I still prefer the Nyquist for my main system, but the Linn is IMHO not far behind. And Linn has actually created the streamer product category in 2007, way before others thought about Ethernet in high-end audio. Compared to the Dave it has a slightly darker sound, it’s a question of preference what you like.

A word of caution: Please don’t tell people with high-end systems you have seriously tested something with gear as diminutive as the PMC Fact 8. You don’t hear half the frequency range in either direction. I would recommend to get the basics in place, before trying to lecture others.

And as Mike says, you are comparing apples and pears.


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the audio review mags are led by marketing and ad income and they cannot say anything bad of products where those products place ad income. Some manufacturers will request non derogatory agreements meaning other parties can be sued if the say anything derogatory. Speak to these editors privately and they will tell you this themselves. That doesn’t mean I love most audio as I do, which comes across in my reviews, as most HiFi is very competitive. Occasionally some products are not vfm.

also reviewers with skill and knowledge aren’t self proclaimed like me. I take days editing videos and adding content and most people are thanking me for it and I’m building up experience of products. I also understand a lot of the technicality of the products.

it’s not uncommon for a reviewer of these mags to tell another reviewer it’s not as good as X, except to leave the criticism out of the review. I’ve first hand experiences of that many times. In fact some even make the review up.

a review is to take or leave depending on whether you believe the person which is fine as nobody can appease everyone. In my own defence the comments I’m getting is that I’m trustworthy and honest and my website is predicated on that basis. That was the aim as well as credibilty, and other stuff besides like engagement and creative writing. Sometimes it effects commercial realities but I’m prepared to put the review first and see if this approach takes me somewhere with a readership. I’m doing that for readers, and I don’t earn any money out of this site yet. I’ve put it thousands of hours with lots of cost.

it is tough because the hard realities of commercial HiFi are a hidden one to most people who are consumers. I always used to believe the 5 star reviews of what HiFi in the U.K., but if I know what I know now my attitude will be very different.

ps I don’t lecture others, I give my opinion which I’ve done. My opinion is as valid as anyone’s despite the kit and I’m a non snob audiophile. If it offends another person that my view is different to theirs, then I can’t apologise for that.

also I read the review and no mention is made of kit used but you’ve referred to it as a review, so clearly you place emphasis on it . And what of this comment , it should give you a big clue as to what goes on “Because this was a very hush-hush review, with strict embargos and non-disclosure agreements that explained in graphic detail what would happen to my technical area if I even breathed a word about this product before the middle of September,” Also he says he listened in Scotland. Reviewers have to listen at home in the same environment changing one thing at a time.

 

[Kuoppis]

the audio review mags are led by marketing and ad income and they cannot say anything bad of products where those products place ad income. Some manufacturers will request non derogatory agreements meaning other parties can be sued if the say anything derogatory. Speak to these editors privately and they will tell you this themselves. That doesn’t mean I love most audio as I do, which comes across in my reviews, as most HiFi is very competitive. Occasionally some products are not vfm.

also reviewers with skill and knowledge aren’t self proclaimed like me. I take days editing videos and adding content and most people are thanking me for it and I’m building up experience of products. I also understand a lot of the technicality of the products.

it’s not uncommon for a reviewer of these mags to tell another reviewer it’s not as good as X, except to leave the criticism out of the review. I’ve first hand experiences of that many times. In fact some even make the review up.

a review is to take or leave depending on whether you believe the person which is fine as nobody can appease everyone. In my own defence the comments I’m getting is that I’m trustworthy and honest and my website is predicated on that basis. That was the aim as well as credibilty, and other stuff besides like engagement and creative writing. Sometimes it effects commercial realities but I’m prepared to put the review first and see if this approach takes me somewhere with a readership. I’m doing that for readers, and I don’t earn any money out of this site yet. I’ve put it thousands of hours with lots of cost.

it is tough because the hard realities of commercial HiFi are a hidden one to most people who are consumers. I always used to believe the 5 star reviews of what HiFi in the U.K., but if I know what I know now my attitude will be very different.

ps I don’t lecture others, I give my opinion which I’ve done. My opinion is as valid as anyone’s despite the kit and I’m a non snob audiophile. If it offends another person that my view is different to theirs, then I can’t apologise for that.

also I read the review and no mention is made of kit used but you’ve referred to it as a review, so clearly you place emphasis on it . And what of this comment , it should give you a big clue as to what goes on “Because this was a very hush-hush review, with strict embargos and non-disclosure agreements that explained in graphic detail what would happen to my technical area if I even breathed a word about this product before the middle of September,” Also he says he listened in Scotland. Reviewers have to listen at home in the same environment changing one thing at a time.

You say you tried some other products. So, why should others be interested?

If you have some substantiated information to share, people might actually care. But just because your moniker says ‘Hifi Reviews’, that does not make you an actual reviewer, competent to comment or entitled to an opinion on any given topic.

You also appear a bit ignorant, not really understanding what you are reading. Alan Sircom saying the review was ‘hush, hush’ was just referring to the fact that the product was new and not fully released yet. Therefore things were still a bit under wraps. Common practice.

May I quote the movie ‘Fish Named Wanda’ for you: “Sokrates was not a Belgian, and the London Underground is not a political movement.”


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[Kuoppis]

There’s another review from Martin Colloms in Hificritic.

According to him the DS/3 upsamples everything to 768 kHz at 35-bit precision. What has changed since his piece is the added DSD capability.


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[13th Note HiFi Reviews]

You say you tried some other products. So, why should others be interested?

If you have some substantiated information to share, people might actually care. But just because your moniker says ‘Hifi Reviews’, that does not make you an actual reviewer, competent to comment or entitled to an opinion on any given topic.

You also appear a bit ignorant, not really understanding what you are reading. Alan Sircom saying the review was ‘hush, hush’ was just referring to the fact that the product was new and not fully released yet. Therefore things were still a bit under wraps. Common practice.

May I quote the movie ‘Fish Named Wanda’ for you: “Sokrates was not a Belgian, and the London Underground is not a political movement.”


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i geuss they might be interested as ALL opinions matter.

my moniker makes me no more have a valid opinion than you or the next person, all I’m doing is sharing a view. You might not be my target audience, fine.

I know what goes on in the HiFi industry and i was explaining that.

but seeing as you are quoting lots of the reviews it seems to me that you take them at face value. All I’m saying is you should exercise caution with the big mags but I’m a hobbyist reviewer and can be more honest. I think listening yourself as you say, is always the way to do it. Cheers

ps this is the one I did and I can be really honest as you won’t find it in mags https://www.13thnote.net/2020/02/20/rme-adi-2-dac-review-qutest-killer/