DAC Opinions

I have also thought about the Bryston. I would say it is on my list also. It is going to depend a bit on if I can get a good enough deal. It is not like I don't already have a pretty decent DAC to get me through until or even if I decide to switch. I just started playing around with HQ Player also. Therefore having a DAC that does 256 or even 512 is looking like something else of importance. This might actually be dropping the Direct Stream off my list :)....

The T+A is sounding like a good choice, maybe, but so far deals on it to make it work are not there... but we will see.
 
Why again are you wanting to replace your current DAC? The version I see on the W4S website is only available in silver, and has a MSRP higher than the ones you are considering? Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense to consider upgrading your speakers?
 
I have the DAC-2v2 SE, not the DAC-2v2 SE 10th Anniversary. Mine is Anthracite grey actually.

It is more of a matter of trying something different and to a lesser extent to match the new cosmetic direction I have been taking with my system. I am actually just starting to consider a switch out. The W4S DAC works very good in my system so it is not like I have to switch. I was seriously thinking of going to a PS Audio Direct Stream or Junior, but now that I just started playing around with HQ Player I think that would not make as much sense.

So if I were going to switch it would probably be to a DSD512 machine. The T+A seems to be a good choice, but I am feeling I will not be able to get a decent enough deal to make the switch worth while.

I am simply exploring the options at this point. Since it is next to impossible to actually listen to the various DACs in my system I seek others advice and experiences. :)

BTW- My speakers are brand new and I absolutely love them. They are very very similar to KEF Reference 3's.... I have actually listened to the Ref 3's many times.... KEF calls them their mini reference, since they are using very similar tech, but saving tons by building the speakers in their China factory versus the factory in Kent England where the Refs are built.
 
Randy Myers said:
So if I were going to switch it would probably be to a DSD512 machine. The T+A seems to be a good choice, but I am feeling I will not be able to get a decent enough deal to make the switch worth while.
Click to expand...

Play with HQPlayer first and figure which filters you prefer. Depending on your filter choice, DSD512 will require a monster machine.

For example the XTR filters (non 2s variant) doing DSD512 would require a 10 core i9 with 16GB of quad channel fast memory.
 
Dr Tone said:
Play with HQPlayer first and figure which filters you prefer. Depending on your filter choice, DSD512 will require a monster machine.

For example the XTR filters (non 2s variant) doing DSD512 would require a 10 core i9 with 16GB of quad channel fast memory.
Click to expand...

You can get by with an I7 quad core and dual channel ram. My friend who has the T + A uses HQP maxed out with an older I7 and either 16 or 32 gb older ram. He runs DSD 512 maxed out.

I occasionally use HQP with an I7-7700k cpu and 16gb 3000mhz dual channel ram and I can max it out without problems but I can only go to DSD 256 due to the limits of my DAC. There is no lag whatsoever. Processing takes a second and then play begins. I even checked cpu and ram utilization and temperature, they barely budge. Ram utilization is 4% and cpu utilization is about the same. I think that newer versions of HQP may be less computer demanding.

I also use Bug Head and it is much more demanding of CPU and ram. CPU temps go up 20-25 degrees Celsius but with HQP it goes up 2 degrees.

One other thing about HQP. If you have a video card that can do CUDA, then it will offload some of the work of the cpu if you have HQP checked to use it. The GPU in video cards actually are better for this type of processing. It is one of the reasons that there has been a run on Video Cards the last few months because people are buying them to mine for Bitcoin and the intensive mathematical computations. It has driven the prices of video cards up $100 to $300 more than normal retail price. I just use the on board Intel graphics in my music computer.
 
I have been playing around with HQ Player a bit. Finally got it upsampling everything, both PCM and my DSD files. I got Roon to be able to control all. I like the way it says signal leaves Roon and then displays the HQ Player settings. Just barely started listening to it. I have not listened to different filters yet.

Dang I thought my dedicated machine was fairly powerful. Devil's Canyon i7, 16 GB DDR3 RAM, 2 TB SSD drives, Gold rated power supply, Falcon Northwest original box, etc. But I guess it isn't :(...

The machine original had a GTX980 card, but after I dedicated it I thought the graphics card was an unnecessary overhead. One of our son's grabbed it for a secondary machine. I might have to see if he is using it, if not see about getting it back from him.
 
Randy, you should be fine with that CPU. YMMV though. What speed is your ram? Read my post above.

Larry
 
Randy, that GTX980 does have CUDA. They are selling for about $500 used right now.

You can always send a message to Miska the developer for HQP. You can find him on Computer Audiophile forum and ask him about your rig.
 
I am not 100% sure the RAM speed, but it was originally designed as extreme high end gaming machine. Falcon always uses "the best" so to speak, so I assume it was some of the fastest available 3-4 years ago.

Yea, I am familiar with CUDA cores. So far everything I throw at it seems to play fine. Will check about getting card back from son. :)
 
You can find your ram speed by going into system properties. But I suspect it is 1600mhz which is the max for that cpu. CUDA offloading would certainly help if you were to run into problems.

Have you considered going the used route for a DAC? You can pick up the PSA DSD for cheap and I have seen the T+A for under $3K used.
 
Mechnutt said:
You can get by with an I7 quad core and dual channel ram. My friend who has the T + A uses HQP maxed out with an older I7 and either 16 or 32 gb older ram. He runs DSD 512 maxed out.

I occasionally use HQP with an I7-7700k cpu and 16gb 3000mhz dual channel ram and I can max it out without problems but I can only go to DSD 256 due to the limits of my DAC. There is no lag whatsoever. Processing takes a second and then play begins. I even checked cpu and ram utilization and temperature, they barely budge. Ram utilization is 4% and cpu utilization is about the same. I think that newer versions of HQP may be less computer demanding.

I also use Bug Head and it is much more demanding of CPU and ram. CPU temps go up 20-25 degrees Celsius but with HQP it goes up 2 degrees.

One other thing about HQP. If you have a video card that can do CUDA, then it will offload some of the work of the cpu if you have HQP checked to use it. The GPU in video cards actually are better for this type of processing. It is one of the reasons that there has been a run on Video Cards the last few months because people are buying them to mine for Bitcoin and the intensive mathematical computations. It has driven the prices of video cards up $100 to $300 more than normal retail price. I just use the on board Intel graphics in my music computer.
Click to expand...

Your friend isn't using poly-sinc-xtr filters. Maybe the poly-sinc-xtr-2s filters or some lesser cpu intensive filter.

Here is Jussi's recommended minimum for the poly-sinc-xtr filters.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/xtr-filters-why-do-they-sound-so-good/25687/15?u=drtone

10 cores running at 90% utilization. 7700k simply won't do it.
 
Dr Tone said:
Your friend isn't using poly-sinc-xtr filters. Maybe the poly-sinc-xtr-2s filters or some lesser cpu intensive filter.

Here is Jussi's recommended minimum for the poly-sinc-xtr filters.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/xtr-filters-why-do-they-sound-so-good/25687/15?u=drtone

10 cores running at 90% utilization. 7700k simply won't do it.
Click to expand...


I am going to talk to my friend and see exactly what settings he is running and will post it. He told me he had it maxed out on filters but who knows exactly what that means. I had no problems with the poly sinc xtr filters and 256 and it does not tax my cpu one bit but I understand that 512 is a different animal.
 
i have just finished four months of research and thinking on a digital source upgrade -- ended up going with the t+a dac 8 dsd. in terms of price/performance, it is probably the best dac i ran across... by far. not sure it means anything but the lead time from the factory in germany is 4 weeks.

after pairing it up with a streamer (such as the t+a MP 8) the cost will be decently more that the alternatives i considered and where i wanted to end up. however, i felt that the capabilities and quality of the t+a would suit my needs well into the future... so, cheaper in the long run.

its also very nice looking... which counts for something, right?
 
aKnyght said:
i have just finished four months of research and thinking on a digital source upgrade -- ended up going with the t+a dac 8 dsd. in terms of price/performance, it is probably the best dac i ran across... by far. not sure it means anything but the lead time from the factory in germany is 4 weeks.

after pairing it up with a streamer (such as the t+a MP 8) the cost will be decently more that the alternatives i considered and where i wanted to end up. however, i felt that the capabilities and quality of the t+a would suit my needs well into the future... so, cheaper in the long run.

its also very nice looking... which counts for something, right?
Click to expand...

So just to be clear you ended up with two devices:
T+A DAC DSD
T+A MP8
Correct?
Questions:
1. What is the total price for both units?
2. Is the MP8 a Roon-ready Endpoint?
3. What did you compare
the T+A combo with?
Thanks!
 
nicoff said:
So just to be clear you ended up with two devices:
T+A DAC DSD
T+A MP8
Correct?
Questions:
1. What is the total price for both units?
2. Is the MP8 a Roon-ready Endpoint?
3. What did you compare
the T+A combo with?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

initially, just the dac 8 dsd -- going to test it out with my current upstream... mp 8 or other streamer/player is next step - or not.

1. dac 8 dsd + mp 8 together are just north of $8500, msrp.

2. mp 8 will be a roon endpoint with next software update is my understanding.

3. i was also seriously looking at ps audio dsj and lunim d2... as mentioned, higher than where I wanted to end up but i felt it was a better long term solution and value. i try to measure twice and cut once - bought my amp is 6 yrs ago and my speakers 20+ yrs ago. absolutely love them both. hopefully this digital source upgrade when it's done works out as well.
 
aKnyght said:
initially, just the dac 8 dsd -- going to test it out with my current upstream... mp 8 or other streamer/player is next step - or not.

1. dac 8 dsd + mp 8 together are just north of $8500, msrp.

2. mp 8 will be a roon endpoint with next software update is my understanding.

3. i was also seriously looking at ps audio dsj and lunim d2... as mentioned, higher than where I wanted to end up but i felt it was a better long term solution and value. i try to measure twice and cut once - bought my amp is 6 yrs ago and my speakers 20+ yrs ago. absolutely love them both. hopefully this digital source upgrade when it's done works out as well.
Click to expand...

Thank you!

My question regarding Roon is because I am a Roon (lifetime) subscriber so I am trying to stay in a Roon-compatible environment since I enjoy Roon plus I already paid for it!
Thanks!!
 
aKnyght said:
initially, just the dac 8 dsd -- going to test it out with my current upstream... mp 8 or other streamer/player is next step - or not.

1. dac 8 dsd + mp 8 together are just north of $8500, msrp.

2. mp 8 will be a roon endpoint with next software update is my understanding.

3. i was also seriously looking at ps audio dsj and lunim d2... as mentioned, higher than where I wanted to end up but i felt it was a better long term solution and value. i try to measure twice and cut once - bought my amp is 6 yrs ago and my speakers 20+ yrs ago. absolutely love them both. hopefully this digital source upgrade when it's done works out as well.
Click to expand...

One more question: have you tried an inexpensive streamer such as the RPi feeding your DAC 8 DSD? The RPi with a HAT would be less than US$100. (Also, Bryston makes a streamer based on the Pi.)
 
nicoff said:
One more question: have you tried an inexpensive streamer such as the RPi feeding your DAC 8 DSD? The RPi with a HAT would be less than US$100. (Also, Bryston makes a streamer based on the Pi.)
Click to expand...

have not tried the RPi solutions. they look intriguing and a lot of fun but further into the computer sys admin weeds than i am up for in an audio system.
 
Dr Tone said:
Your friend isn't using poly-sinc-xtr filters. Maybe the poly-sinc-xtr-2s filters or some lesser cpu intensive filter.

Here is Jussi's recommended minimum for the poly-sinc-xtr filters.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/xtr-filters-why-do-they-sound-so-good/25687/15?u=drtone

10 cores running at 90% utilization. 7700k simply won't do it.
Click to expand...


You were right, my friend runs poly-sinc-xtr-2 without problems at DSD 512. He is using an older cpu that turbo's to 3.9Ghz along with DDR3 1600mhz ram. Still, Randy should be able to do DSD 512 with his current rig, just not the non -2 settings.
 
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