Cybershaft users; I need your assistance.
- Thread starter mxk116
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Moot point, but for K-01XD BNC coaxial cables with 50Ω or 75Ω impedance can be used for 10MHz clock synchronization signals.
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- #23
Received this from Hasagawa-san this morning (bold font added for emphasis). I hope this helps anyone else who has wondered about this;
"Thank you for your email.
For the four unused output channels of the OP21A-D, we recommend connecting a 75ohm terminator.
A 75ohm terminator can prevent reflected waves from unused terminals.
The reason for 75ohm is that the circuit current is less than that of 50ohm termination, so the load on the circuit is lighter.
The product comes with three 75ohm terminators, so you don't need to supply your own."
In a subsequent exchange, Mr. Hasegawa shared that it is unclear exactly how these reflected waves are manifested in the performance of the master clock or in the signal path. He did emphasize that the effect is minor and the frequencies emitted by the unterminated clock outputs may effect other devices more than the master clock itself. In fact Cybershaft does not terminate unused terminals when performing the final calibration of their products. This supports the low impact of the “reflected waves” of unused/unterminated outputs on the performance of the master clock.
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You asked about shorting plugs. Shorting plugs provide a zero ohm resistance across the output. i.e. the output sees a short. A 75 ohm terminator is different. It provides a resistive load across the output. The output does not see a short.
SCAudiophile
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With Esoteric or any other, the cable spec should match what the Esoteric expects. 50 and 75 ohm cables should not be considered interchangeable if the clock input on the device says it expects 50 ohm (or vice versa).
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SCAudiophile
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Definitely agree....terminators are superior to shorting plugs.
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SCAudiophile
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Yes....best to follow the spec of the input as given in the manual and match the cable to it. RTFM...they are there for a reason [emoji2957]
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SCAudiophile
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SCAudiophile
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Happy to help with any specific questions on the Cybershaft clocks I have used and the one I currently own (about 4 years old) plus current models.
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SCAudiophile
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My opinion comes for 4-5 months participation daily in a large double-blind trial of MANY cables of mixed specs, 50-ohm, 75-ohm, 50 ohm with
75 ohm connectors and 75 ohm with 50-ohm connectors, different levels and sources for the cable body/wire, etc....
We did not find out the complete list of cables we were all testing on a mix of Esoteric, DCS, and other systems that thrive on master clocking
and/or word clocking until all test results were assembled. All cables had no markings and were all simple black tech-flex. Colored tape labels
with "A", "B"..or similar markings were used.
Sonically, based upon extensive listening by multiple people, none of whom knew who else was involved until after the trials were complete,
every single person's notes wound up validating that there was sonic impact to the mixing impedance either with wire or connector spec or
overall regardless of equipment or type of clocking used.
I am not saying that what you copy-pasted is entirely false, only that my experience has led me to a different point of view that I stick with.
SCAudiophile
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Thank you! (Just a customer with quite a few years and several models in my history; happy to help! )
The Esoteric is beyond the budget allocated for this part of the system. Unless Mike is feeling the urge to make me an offer I can’t refuse.
The Grandioso G1X is a beautiful piece and I've heard it work its magic with a P1X/D1X stack. Esoteric's finally moving to an OCXO approach is very welcome.
The casework is also beyond beautiful and just so happens to match my P1/D1 stack.
The test performance when it comes to phase noise, Allen Variance and therefore effective jitter for the G1X and the top Cybershafts are at least identical
so if someone does not want to spend 4X the price on the G1X and/or doesn't want Grandioso case-matching (and Esoteric battleship build standards)
you don't give up any (musical improvement) ground with a Cybershaft OP21 or OP20. The same could be said of a Sforzato master clock (much more expensive
just like the Esoteric and from early reports perhaps even the SOULNOTE/Sforzato-OEM collaboration though I have no direct knowledge there.
The Grandioso G1X is fantastic; none of this post is speaking against it or any other Esoteric clock.
I am obviously an Esoteric and Grandioso fan, and have used 3 Esoteric clocks bought new in my own system in years past.
There was also a question during the time I was off forum for many weeks regarding the spiked footers. Yes they are well worth it from all reports.
Personally I have mine on Stillpoint Ultra SS with the bases. For platform, that all sits on a Townshend Seismic vibration platform I added 2+ months
ago with a nice uplift.
If I recall correctly, Caelin has commented here that the 75 ohm and 50 ohm Shunyata clock cables are built from the same bulk stock cable. The only difference are the BNC terminations. And I think he said for interconnect clock cable lengths the impedance doesn't matter, whether you use 50 or 75. The 10Mhz clock frequency = 30m wavelength. Way way longer than interconnect cable lengths. And the Mexcell clock cable built by Acrolink for Esoteric is 75 ohm. They don't build a 50 ohm clock cable. So all that adds up to say it doesn't matter. But whatever electrical engineering theory dictates, the objective listening test are quite compelling.
My question is. Will I get G1X performance out of my G-02X if I connect its CLOCK INPUT to the top Cybershaft OP21?
SCAudiophile
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Esoteric-Mexcel used to build an incredible cable that was 50-ohm, the 8N-A2000. I had two...
SCAudiophile
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The part about the length was a quote from him regarding whether digital clock cables of typical lengths could become "transmission lines" if memory serves.
"Caelin has commented here that the 75 ohm and 50 ohm Shunyata clock cables are built from the same bulk stock cable."
I will check on this however I highly doubt it; even Pasternack and other big suppliers provide specific cable products for specific impedances (I've done some DIY 50 and
75's). The only move you could reasonably pull would be using 50-ohm in place of 75-ohm for reasons I'll not go into here.
SCAudiophile
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Having the Cybershaft OP21 (or any superior 10 mHz master clock) "discipline" and serve as master to the G-02X will definitely be of benefit; quite a bit in fact.
You get G1X performance out of the Cybershaft OP21 (or since Cybershaft OP21 was technically here first you could reverse that sentence :exciting
There is no way to say conclusively however that using the Cybershaft to discipline the G-02X and that the result (which is highly dependent on the G-02X output
in this combo) would be equal to the G1X without actually setting it up and trying it with extensive A/B.
I had 7N-DA6100v3 which was the top Mexcel clock cable. It was specified at 75 ohms. Acrolink had stopped making the 50 ohm cables when I bought the 7N-DA6100 (which was about 4 years ago).
Another unknown. Whether the G-02X/OP21 combo, but with upgraded Omega level clock cables, would yield a better outcome than G1X with lesser Sigma level cables. G-02X/OP21 with 3 x Omega's would still probably be cheaper than G1X with Sigma's.
SCAudiophile
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Having owned Esoteric Mexcel 8N-A2000 cables followed by Sigma v1, then Sigma v2 each for substantial period of time (over a year or more each) and then
moving to Omega CLOCK-50s, there was good jump even beyond what I thought were already excellent clock cables when moving to Omega. Given how good
things evolved to sound with move to Sigma v2, I was NOT eager to spend any more or hankering for an upgrade (I tend to hold gear and cables for years and
get the most out of it I can). I was offered a chance to test Omega and give them a full run (break-in through full capability). By the end of the break-in period
I knew I was about to have to upgrade.
Whichever option you choose in gear, clock,...I would say that Omega is a constant, not a variable.