Buyer does not want to pay import duty (AudiogoN problem)

I believe that by in large folks are good. Perhaps that's that the up-bringing of my momma... and I am way younger than ya'll. But, I truly believe that goodness is what rules. Error on the side of ethics, values and kindness.

To error is human. Nothing is won by taking the offensive first. Genuine goodness...I believe in it.
 
^^^^ I'm not critiquing your sound philosophy and I am talking about taking the offensive as a secondary measure. The selling intent was good after all which is being abused by the buyer. The bigger world is not Pleasantville and believing that only amounts to disappointment and economic loss.
 
Steve said:
^^^^ I'm not critiquing your sound philosophy and I am talking about taking the offensive as a secondary measure. The selling intent was good after all which is being abused by the buyer. The bigger world is not Pleasantville and believing that only amounts to disappointment and economic loss.
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So far, I have been very lucky :)
 
Elberoth said:
Bank wire transfer - so I'm covered. As I said - it is all about the rules for me. I always try to be fair, both as a seller, and as a buyer. This is how I got my 300+, 100% positive feedback on AgoN. I feel that what the guy is trying to do is not fair.
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Man I agree with ya. Rules people don't follow the rules, and push the limits of all things written in this world. But if it were me and I wanted to sell a $5k cable and I'm going to let $150 custom fee stop me form clearing $4850k cash, nope I'll pay the fee and take the money and note in my next sell, that all fees are the responsibility of the buyer.
 
Id offer to split the fee and remind him of the policy going forward. Sucks, but its too little to fight over.
 
I always assumed that Audioquest Cables were manufactured in the US. If so there should no import duty bringing them back into the US. He just has to show proof of origin.
 
My mom drilled this into me: Sometimes when you are Right you are Wrong. Another, Win the Battle or Loose the War?

You are in receipt of full payment, right? Or, is the buyer eligible to dispute? I would imagine the buyer is not able to challenge receipt of the merchandise, yes?

If the buyer disputes and likely but not certain, Paypal or other in the end may rule with you. Is the frustration and process worthwhile? 3% or whatever isn't much...I'm sure you times is in excess more valuable than 3%?

Also, it appears you value your positive feedback and something you are proud of, Risk it?

Can you appeal to his sense of what's reasonable and fair? Negotiate? I still believe being nice goes a great distance. Not to mention, you'll be one nicer person on the planet :)

Idea, maybe you conditionally assume the fee and compel the buyer to post positive feedback about how great you are because you even assumed the tax/duty fees because you are so awesome - a brilliant seller!
 
Are we trying to resolve an issue that doesn't exist? What is the country of origin for AudioQuest Everest cables? As I posted yesterday I have been thru this in the past. Here is the info from the CBP site.

U.S. made goods returning to the United States are usually eligible for duty-free treatment. The provision 9801.00.10 in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS) allows U.S. made products to return to the U.S. without duty requirements. However, the provision stipulates the goods value could not have been advanced nor the condition improved while abroad. In other words, if an item was repaired or improved, duty could be owed on either the fair market value of the labor or the item as it has been changed.

For instance, if you take gold to India, where it is then made into jewelry, the gold can not be re-entered into the U.S. free of charge. Nor is the value of the gold deductable from the value of the finished jewelry To claim goods under this provision, proof of U.S. origin is required (i.e., country of origin marking or a certificate of origin from manufacture).
 
still-one said:
Are we trying to resolve an issue that doesn't exist? What is the country of origin for AudioQuest Everest cables? As I posted yesterday I have been thru this in the past. Here is the info from the CBP site.

U.S. made goods returning to the United States are usually eligible for duty-free treatment. The provision 9801.00.10 in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule (HTS) allows U.S. made products to return to the U.S. without duty requirements. However, the provision stipulates the goods value could not have been advanced nor the condition improved while abroad. In other words, if an item was repaired or improved, duty could be owed on either the fair market value of the labor or the item as it has been changed.

For instance, if you take gold to India, where it is then made into jewelry, the gold can not be re-entered into the U.S. free of charge. Nor is the value of the gold deductable from the value of the finished jewelry To claim goods under this provision, proof of U.S. origin is required (i.e., country of origin marking or a certificate of origin from manufacture).
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Very interesting different perspective and possible solution. Are the cables labeled "Made in the U.S.A.?
 
Thanks guys for all the input. It also occured to me that the cables are US made and should be allowed to return to the US without the requirement to pay customs duty. I'm trying to resolve this issue with DHL since Friday.
 
Elberoth said:
Sure, I can do that (it is like putting a warning sign on a coffe cup, that it is hot - sure it is hot, you just bought a coffe, not a coke with ice !; this is sth an avg european cannot understand - it is very american).

But at the same time - you may scan 100s of AudiogoN listings and you will not find a disclaimer like this. And yet, a few dosens of int'l deals are beeing made on AgoN every day.
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It goes much deeper than that and that is why you are in the pickle you are in. There are so many numbskulls out there that are either naïve or they are pretending to be naïve that I always let overseas buyers know they are responsible for all import duties, fees, and taxes. Ditto for Canada buyers. I also tell them upfront that I won't falsify any Customs documents and I'm going to declare the value at what they paid me. Honestly, I try and avoid selling anything out of the U.S. just because there are so many issues and I hate dealing with them.

So now you assumed the buyer knew he was responsible for paying all the fees and he is pleading ignorance and wants you to pay them. After that old woman that went through the McDonalds drive through and bought a cup of coffee which subsequently spilled out and burned her money maker and she claimed that the coffee was too hot, McDonalds learned to put a warning label on every cup of coffee so people couldn't pretend they didn't realize coffee was hot. You can never make anything idiot proof because idiots keep evolving, but you have to try in order to protect yourself.
 
Mark.......Like the old saying goes: Never argue with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 
Golucid said:
My mom drilled this into me: Sometimes when you are Right you are Wrong. Another, Win the Battle or Loose the War?

You are in receipt of full payment, right? Or, is the buyer eligible to dispute? I would imagine the buyer is not able to challenge receipt of the merchandise, yes?

If the buyer disputes and likely but not certain, Paypal or other in the end may rule with you. Is the frustration and process worthwhile? 3% or whatever isn't much...I'm sure you times is in excess more valuable than 3%?

Also, it appears you value your positive feedback and something you are proud of, Risk it?

Can you appeal to his sense of what's reasonable and fair? Negotiate? I still believe being nice goes a great distance. Not to mention, you'll be one nicer person on the planet :)

Idea, maybe you conditionally assume the fee and compel the buyer to post positive feedback about how great you are because you even assumed the tax/duty fees because you are so awesome - a brilliant seller!
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He paid me by bank wire transfer. So he cannot undo this. The only thing he can do is to leave me a negative feedback on AgoN. But since AudiogoN policy is clear on that matter (duties and taxes are either the Buyer's responsibility, or the Buyer is responsible for specifically addressing the exact dollar amount during negotiations), they will undoubtly delete it.

The funny thing is, he specificly paid me $150 for shipping (this is what DHL charged me), over the cable's sale price. Now he wants me to return him $155,60, so it is even more than he actually paid for shipping.

It is difficoult to talk to the guy who accuses you of 'maliciously, fucking him over very well' (his words).

This really saddens me. This is the second deal on AudiogoN in 12+ years that went south. Previously I had a dispute with the seller (Ritt), who advertised his Reymio CDP-777 CD player as 9/10 condition, but turned out to be more like 6/10 (a disaster really).
 
Adam.......I would cease to correspond with this person. Deal only with Audiogon to correct any foul feedback. This guy knows exactly what he's doing. He is trying to steal money from you. Close the book on this fool.
 
+1
No point or benefit in continuing the correspondence directly with the buyer. Talk to paypal if he leaves negative feedback. If he has denied acceptance of the cables, due to unpaid customs, and they are sent back to you, refund his payment minus any costs associated with shipping and return shipping.
He must be a scammer who knows the rules and is taking advantage.
Buying $5k of cable from poland and not willing to pay $150 of customs? Seriously?
This guy needs negative feedback despite it being a drag and a hassle for you.
 
Elberoth said:
I just sold a $5k AudioQuest Everest cables to the US buyer on Audiogon. We agreed on the price. He also paid me $150 for int'l shipping, which is the quote I got from DHL. He knew I will be shipping the cables from Poland.

I have sent the cables as I always do - insured to the full value. Not suprisingly, the item did not fly under the radar of US customs, and the buyer was asked to pay Customs Duty. Now he wants me to cover this.

I have to say, this is the first time I happen to be in a situation like this. I have bought and sold over 200 items on Audiogon in the past 13 years. All of those have been int'l deals with people all over the world. Never / ever have I been demanded by the buyer to cover his Customs Duty. I'm not even able to count how many times I had to pay Customs Duty myself for items bought outside the EU.

The amount is not great - it is probably around 3% or so (I didn't ask) so around $150. But for me it is not about the money - it is about the rules.

The buyers feedback is 100%, account registered in 2011, feedback score 9 (so only made 3 deals).

Even if you go to ebay's 'International shipping and customs' FAQ it clearly says 'buyers pay additional costs such as duties, taxes, and customs clearance fees.'
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Adam,
This is a very weird demand from your buyer. Of course customs have to be paid by the buyer.
I am surprised by the low 3% fare. In France you pay 30 % on imported goods from outside the EC !!!
 
Yes, ain't the US great? :D
In Brazil, there's more than one tax to be paid on imported goods. The total of all the taxes? 100% over the price of the goods + (get this) shipping!!!! Yes, we pay import taxes on shipping...
So, don't be so sad with your 30%... :)


cheers,
alex
 
asiufy said:
Yes, ain't the US great? :D
In Brazil, there's more than one tax to be paid on imported goods. The total of all the taxes? 100% over the price of the goods + (get this) shipping!!!! Yes, we pay import taxes on shipping...
So, don't be so sad with your 30%... :)


cheers,
alex
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So I'm lucky my buyer is not from Brasil. If he demanded to give him $5000 back, I would end up selling the cable for free :)
 
In CH, we have assessment fees and VAT is charged on price +shipping + customs assessment fee!!!
So tax on tax.
 
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