Buyer does not want to pay import duty (AudiogoN problem)

Elberoth

Elberoth

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I just sold a $5k AudioQuest Everest cables to the US buyer on Audiogon. We agreed on the price. He also paid me $150 for int'l shipping, which is the quote I got from DHL. He knew I will be shipping the cables from Poland.

I have sent the cables as I always do - insured to the full value. Not suprisingly, the item did not fly under the radar of US customs, and the buyer was asked to pay Customs Duty. Now he wants me to cover this.

I have to say, this is the first time I happen to be in a situation like this. I have bought and sold over 200 items on Audiogon in the past 13 years. All of those have been int'l deals with people all over the world. Never / ever have I been demanded by the buyer to cover his Customs Duty. I'm not even able to count how many times I had to pay Customs Duty myself for items bought outside the EU.

The amount is not great - it is probably around 3% or so (I didn't ask) so around $150. But for me it is not about the money - it is about the rules.

The buyers feedback is 100%, account registered in 2011, feedback score 9 (so only made 3 deals).

Even if you go to ebay's 'International shipping and customs' FAQ it clearly says 'buyers pay additional costs such as duties, taxes, and customs clearance fees.'
 
Elberoth said:
I just sold a $5k AudioQuest Everest cables to the US buyer on Audiogon. We agreed on the price. He also paid me $150 for int'l shipping, which is the quote I got from DHL. He knew I will be shipping the cables from Poland.

I have sent the cables as I always do - insured to the full value. Not suprisingly, the item did not fly under the radar of US customs, and the buyer was asked to pay Customs Duty. Now he wants me to cover this.

I have to say, this is the first time I happen to be in a situation like this. I have bought and sold over 200 items on Audiogon in the past 13 years. All of those have been int'l deals with people all over the world. Never / ever have I been demanded by the buyer to cover his Customs Duty. I'm not even able to count how many times I had to pay Customs Duty myself for items bought outside the EU.

The amount is not great - it is probably around 3% or so (I didn't ask) so around $150. But for me it is not about the money - it is about the rules.

The buyers feedback is 100%, account registered in 2011, feedback score 9 (so only made 3 deals).

Even if you go to ebay's 'International shipping and customs' FAQ it clearly says 'buyers pay additional costs such as duties, taxes, and customs clearance fees.'
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Perhaps in the future enhance your rules of disclosure that any and all import tax and duty is a buyer responsibility. This will negate confusion.
 
Sure, I can do that (it is like putting a warning sign on a coffe cup, that it is hot - sure it is hot, you just bought a coffe, not a coke with ice !; this is sth an avg european cannot understand - it is very american).

But at the same time - you may scan 100s of AudiogoN listings and you will not find a disclaimer like this. And yet, a few dosens of int'l deals are beeing made on AgoN every day.
 
Elberoth said:
Sure, I can do that (it is like putting a warning sign on a coffe cup, that it is hot - sure it is hot, you just bought a coffe, not a coke with ice !; this is sth an avg european cannot understand - it is very american).

But at the same time - you may scan 100s of AudiogoN listings and you will not find a disclaimer like this. And yet, a few dosens of int'l deal is beeing made on AgoN every day.
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Then look at it as a gamble. Sometimes you win and then there are times you loose. From my read, you own the merchandise. You can bail on the sale?
 
One more thing: asking the buyer to cover youl local taxes is an utopia. There are 200+ countries in the world, with constantly changing tax rates.

How can you expect a seller to learn all of them ? That sale was to the US, but eaqually well it could have been to China. How I'm expected to look up China's custom duty fees ? I do not know chineese.

In any case - AudiogoN system (or an ebay system for that matter) does not even allow you to incorporate the right duty fee value in your 'buy now' option. And import duties can vary as much as 0% and 60%.

As thay say - Ignorantia legis non excusat - ignorance of the law excuses no one. You you want to import sth from abroad, you have to know what your goverment has to say about this.
 
Elberoth said:
One more thing: asking the buyer to cover youl local taxes is an utopia. There are 200+ countries in the world, with constantly changing tax rates.

How can you expect a seller to learn all of them ? That sale was to the US, but eaqually well it could have been to China. How I'm expected to look up China's custom duty fees ? I do not know chineese.

In any case - AudiogoN system (or an ebay system for that matter) does not even allow you to incorporate the right duty fee value in your 'buy now' option. And import duties can vary as much as 0% and 60%.

As thay say - Ignorantia legis non excusat - ignorance of the law excuses no one. You you want to import sth from abroad, you have to know what your goverment has to say about this.
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Another option is to disclose a service fee that in general covers these dynamic fees. Or, pad your list price to include the incidental. Life is unpredictable. Statistics and Absolutes, a deep discussion item.

A perfect sales venue is a hypothesis. There's no such thing.
 
Adam, that is total rubbish what this buyer has done. Every importer regardless of one item on ebay/audiogon or the biggest importer of goods in any country has to pay import tax, "period". Send it to audiogon dispute or whatever they do.
 
Elberoth said:
Sure, I can do that (it is like putting a warning sign on a coffe cup, that it is hot - sure it is hot, you just bought a coffe, not a coke with ice !; this is sth an avg european cannot understand - it is very american).

But at the same time - you may scan 100s of AudiogoN listings and you will not find a disclaimer like this. And yet, a few dosens of int'l deals are beeing made on AgoN every day.
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Adam,

Bummer, apparently he thought he was buying ice coffee. Maybe try to split the cost and move on.
 
I overlooked (forgot about) duty on a recent deal with a fellow shark and never for a second thought about asking him to cover them. It was much much higher than your buyers. I considered it my country, my import, my duty, and oh yeah, my bad. Your buyer needs to be accountable and responsible.
 
I have looked through some AudiogoN disputes, and AudiogoN's position is very clear on this matter:

In general, Audiogon's position is that in international transactions, duties and taxes are either the Buyer's responsibility, or the Buyer is responsible for specifically addressing the exact dollar amount during negotiations. It is unrealistic to expect a seller to find or estimate duties or taxes charged by a buyer's country with likely the internet as his/her only resource. Whereas, the Buyer would have access to people and places where he/she could find this information quickly and easily (Post office, etc.).

So basicly thay are saying the same to what I have just said.
 
Elberoth said:
I have looked through some AudiogoN disputes, and AudiogoN's position is very clear on this matter:

In general, Audiogon's position is that in international transactions, duties and taxes are either the Buyer's responsibility, or the Buyer is responsible for specifically addressing the exact dollar amount during negotiations. It is unrealistic to expect a seller to find or estimate duties or taxes charged by a buyer's country with likely the internet as his/her only resource. Whereas, the Buyer would have access to people and places where he/she could find this information quickly and easily (Post office, etc.).

So basicly thay are saying the same to what I have just said.
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Bingo. Perhaps post the bylaw within your post. This will reaffirm not only your position but also AudioGon. Proactive. Yippee!
 
Double-D said:
Adam.......How did he pay you?
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Bank wire transfer - so I'm covered. As I said - it is all about the rules for me. I always try to be fair, both as a seller, and as a buyer. This is how I got my 300+, 100% positive feedback on AgoN. I feel that what the guy is trying to do is not fair.
 
Elberoth said:
Bank wire transfer - so I'm covered. As I said - it is all about the rules for me. I always try to be fair, both as a seller, and as a buyer. This is how I got my 300+, 100% positive feedback on AgoN. I feel that what the guy is trying to do is not fair.
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Feel or believe? The two do not coexist well.

Feel defined: perceive through the dense of touch
Belive defined: To accept as true or real:
 
Adam

This ignoramus has no recourse. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the buyer / importer to pay incoming taxes if applicable.

That said, I have always stated to any buyer they would be responsible for any local import taxes, and the Americans are the most ignorant to that fact.

Give him nothing and have audiogon remove and negative feedback if he gives it.
 
XV-1 said:
Adam

This ignoramus has no recourse. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the buyer / importer to pay incoming taxes if applicable.

That said, I have always stated to any buyer they would be responsible for any local import taxes, and the Americans are the most ignorant to that fact.
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XV-1.......It appears you really have your finger on the pulse of Americans doing International business. I can't imagine how anything here ever gets properly done without intervention. Thankfully we have your concise and accurate observations to guide us blundering American fools. :P
 
XV-1 said:
Adam

This ignoramus has no recourse. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the buyer / importer to pay incoming taxes if applicable.

That said, I have always stated to any buyer they would be responsible for any local import taxes, and the Americans are the most ignorant to that fact.

Give him nothing and have audiogon remove and negative feedback if he gives it.
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You Rock!
 
Elberoth said:
I have looked through some AudiogoN disputes, and AudiogoN's position is very clear on this matter:

In general, Audiogon's position is that in international transactions, duties and taxes are either the Buyer's responsibility, or the Buyer is responsible for specifically addressing the exact dollar amount during negotiations. It is unrealistic to expect a seller to find or estimate duties or taxes charged by a buyer's country with likely the internet as his/her only resource. Whereas, the Buyer would have access to people and places where he/she could find this information quickly and easily (Post office, etc.).

So basicly thay are saying the same to what I have just said.
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Regardless, for $75 (half of the $150) I would offer to split in exchange for good feedback. It ain't worth the hassle and the risk that somehow you get dinged and AG won't address your negative feedback. Next time if one of us knucklehead Americans has only 3 transactions, make it more clear in negotiations....damn neophyte Yankees.
 
Double-D said:
XV-1.......It appears you really have your finger on the pulse of American's doing International business. I can't imagine how anything here ever gets properly done without intervention. Thankfully we have your concise and accurate observations to guide us blundering American fools. :P
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Hi Dan

Ha ha, Perhaps I should have said IME. Only ever had 3 issues in international HiFi sales, all from the USA :weird:

The Europeans and the Asians seem to understand their own countries import taxes when they are guying gear overseas.

Cheers
 
Elberoth said:
Bank wire transfer - so I'm covered. As I said - it is all about the rules for me. I always try to be fair, both as a seller, and as a buyer. This is how I got my 300+, 100% positive feedback on AgoN. I feel that what the guy is trying to do is not fair.
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Sellers responsibility, quote the Audiogon policy, tell him to accept the customs clearance or lose the goods. No refund for refusing to pay his import obligation and then give him the finger. You have to be tough with international transactions. There are wankers all over the world that try to short you. I can tell you many USA horror stories. You can always tell him that if he has a problem, your "family" can pay him a visit. He will do what he has to do because he's not going to risk losing out on the goods. As for merchantability, you took plenty of photos including the packaging didn't you...
 
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