Burn in

Mikado463 said:
Michael are you sure it wasn't at hour 274 ?? :yahoo1:

On a serious note and to answer your question, Toms link to the article is but one resource to show the power of 'thinking your way to the reality of a change'. You're pre-disposed to think , that a 'burn in' will yield the 'ahh moment', so @ hour 275 your brain said, 'ok let's get this over with, bingo' !

Hey, at the end of the day it's all good as I've said before. This debate will never be settled in a forum discussion so I'm off to put some Neatsfoot oil on my grandsons baseball glove to help it break-in ! I know that's for real !! :peace:
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It's certainly possible what you guys have stated. I'm not going to state I am right and you are wrong.

Fun and respectful posts like this are enjoyable!
 
W9TR said:
It’s your personal experience so totally valid. That your wife corroborated your experience will strengthen it. What cognitive science says is that by having this experience it in the past it is highly likely you will experience it in the future.
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Very possible Tom. The brain is a complex thing!
 
Mikado463 said:
first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.

I'm not a meat eater but often when I make prime tenderloins for my wife's family that all eat it medium. Sous Vide and then on the 1200 deg searing section of my grill has them all loving it. With Sous Vide the meat is cooked so evenly and virtually impossible to screw up.
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Mikado463 said:
first off I grill my steaks, the secret is....'know your grill' ! So for the thickness I stated (anything less and you're not a steak person) my timing yields what I stated. Now my son for Christmas Eve goes the extra mile and does prime, dry aged NY Strips 'Sous Vide' and finishes them off on his Weber kettle grill that has a temp a blacksmith would be proud of for a minute a side for a perfect sear.
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i got to give it, knowing the grill is key. you seem to know how you want your steak and have a predictable and repeatable system. thats all about, i wish to try your steak!
as for sous vide, while it has a very predictable and very good outcome, i went away from it. all that juice in the bag and the meat turns grey. some say it doesnt matter, but objectively it does alter the meat. so does seasoning prior to searing, be it 10 minutes or a full day.
putting the steak at 30 deg celsius uncovered in the oven wont change the consistency nor does the meat sweat. again, 30 deg, not 32 or 35. it is a reversed system as sous vide, just not to the extend of it.
then iron cast pan with enough of clarified butter, 3min each side at heat nr7 out of 9, then turn off the heat, add butter, spices, salt and herbs and keep turning and turning the steak for a minute.
not disputing, just from steaklover to steaklovers, one way to do it medium rare with a brown tasty crust without any black burned parts.
 
Interesting those claiming burn in is imagination but I can't get my system to continue improving past thepoint of burn in, maybe that's limited imagination :) But, based on all the naysayer's theories my system should be the best in the world to me, I will it so, it just doesn't seem to work out that way, I always hear systems that still sound different and sometimes I even prefer, hmmmmmm I also wonder why burn in varies, maybe attention span is short that day or week or month.

Anyone keep track of nutritional guidelines over the years, just because someone with credentials after their name writes something it doesn't make it true, even electrical engineers don't agree in their field.. So I'm sure no one's mind will change here, I can definitely vouch for mine.

I really love those who claim I'm biased by the looks, well maybe if I had that luxury but your claim doesn't hold water when vision is out of the equation. I don't believe that other mind stuff either.
 
I rely on my ears. I can only assume in instances of burn in it began when powered up. Burn in stops when I stop hearing changes in sonic character.

Sometimes a component may sound good when installed and I notice it only getting better for a while, then it begins to sound the same each time. How much better varies.

Speakers never sound like they should out of the box, unless some manufacturer does burn in before shipping. In my experience speakers show the most change in sound from out of the box and should be easy to detect burn in. Electronics are more subtle.

I'm sure this will spark comments of "audio memory", mine is actually very good. For those who claim it doesn't exist it must be grand for them to always hear their system each time as if it was the first time. Describe your system's sound, duh, I don't remember.


Speedskater said:
How does one tell when burn-in has stopped and burn-out has started?
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Mr Peabody said:
I rely on my ears. I can only assume in instances of burn in it began when powered up. Burn in stops when I stop hearing changes in sonic character.

Sometimes a component may sound good when installed and I notice it only getting better for a while, then it begins to sound the same each time. How much better varies.

Speakers never sound like they should out of the box, unless some manufacturer does burn in before shipping. In my experience speakers show the most change in sound from out of the box and should be easy to detect burn in. Electronics are more subtle.

I'm sure this will spark comments of "audio memory", mine is actually very good. For those who claim it doesn't exist it must be grand for them to always hear their system each time as if it was the first time. Describe your system's sound, duh, I don't remember.
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I agree on relying with the ears.

I listening to my 3 reference burn in songs in 25 hour increments.

I listen at 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100 and take notes at each stage and do not listen to the gear in-between those time increments. For me I find it's easier to discern if there are any differences.

I used to think 100 hours would do it for most gear (although some gear does not even need this long), lately companies have been telling me on cables and even Luxman gear they need 300 hours. I was very skeptical, but my 509x is a great example of not really opening up until 275 hours, and then another improvement at 325 hours.

But it's one of those topics where if someone says to me there is no such thing as burn in, I respect their different opinion simply say to them "OK".

I will say in regards to the argument of you're ears supposedly "adjust" that I have never experienced this. As an example in my switch testing the other day I had a combo that sounded much too bright to me initially. After listening for hours more, I never "got used to it" and it still sounded much too bright for me at the end just as at the beginning.
 
the "thing" with the brain works also vice versa. if you do not belive.....it will simply never happen.
take your perspective and defend it to death.
 
When I am testing a new wire for inwall use, I will insert it, then immediately play it. Keep in mind, I have a reference in wall wire I have been playing for at least months I am comparing the sonics too. My baseline. When I insert the new wire, I pay attention to multiple different aspects of songs. I understand the idea of auditory blindness so I actively look all around the music.

After the initial play I let it run for 24 hours minimum. In that time I turn the stereo off about 3 times for 1 hour, then turn it back on.

Then I put my reference cable back in and let everything warm up. I listen to the rederence looking around the music. Then I put the new cable back in. Every time the new cable has changed to some degree compared to how it performed to the reference.

If I were not to have a reference and spent the time to assess one to the other, It would be much harder to "remember" where the new one was and where it went.

Honestly, as I move forward with new design's, I see no reason for an initial play. As in really assessing it. I know it will change over 24 hours so I will just put it in and let it play. Then listen later with the same process of comparing to the base cable.
 
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