Box swappers - misunderstood.

MDP said:
I don't know why either, but why else do they get so wound up over someone else's business ?
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Let's don't mistake someone commenting on swapping gear as being the same thing as getting wound up over people who swap gear. As far as being someone's business, it's no longer private when you talk about it publicly. Whenever you post something on a public forum, whether you realize it or not, you are opening yourself up to be criticized and/or judged. It just comes with the territory. However, people are buffered somewhat on AS because AS is the audio forum equivalent of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood where people are expected to get along and act neighborly towards each other which is a good thing.

In the Art Dudley thread, I thought Myles wrote a masterful post about the benefits of long-term listening vs. short term listening and I think it's applicable here as well. Sometimes even when you think you have the fastest ears in the West, it doesn't mean your ears are correct at telling you the truth at Mach 3 listening speeds. As Myles says, sometimes what appears as really good in the short term turns out to be not so good over the long haul and vice versa.

I have said this before and I will say it again, it is my opinion if you change out too many key pieces of your stereo system within a short time of each other, you really have no idea what you are listening to. Why? Because you truly have no reference and no stake in the ground where you can judge where you are at and which direction you are heading.
 
Hello, my name is Zero and I’m a box swapper.

I’ve been that way ever since I got into this hobby. Some people think this behavior stems from insecurities. Others believe that box swappers are caught up in the farcical notion of unearthing the holy grail of sound. The truth is though, my box swapping ways have nothing to do with either of those things.

I cycle through tons of gear simply because I LOVE experiencing the varied flavors of Hi-Fi exotica. To me, the process is fun. Maybe even addictive! However you wish to deduct it, the bottom line is that I love listening to different types of gear! I love the engineering aspect of it, I love how each component can influence the sound of recorded music, and I love figuring out how these components interact with one another.

To me, the whole affair is fascinating, fun, expensive, educational, and something that I like to do. Some people take issue with it, and quite frankly, I could care less. :D
 
Zero said:
Hello, my name is Zero and I’m a box swapper.

I’ve been that way ever since I got into this hobby. Some people think this behavior stems from insecurities. Others believe that box swappers are caught up in the farcical notion of unearthing the holy grail of sound. The truth is though, my box swapping ways have nothing to do with either of those things.

I cycle through tons of gear simply because I LOVE experiencing the varied flavors of Hi-Fi exotica. To me, the process is fun. Maybe even addictive! However you wish to deduct it, the bottom line is that I love listening to different types of gear! I love the engineering aspect of it, I love how each component can influence the sound of recorded music, and I love figuring out how these components interact with one another.

To me, the whole affair is fascinating, fun, expensive, educational, and something that I like to do. Some people take issue with it, and quite frankly, I could care less. :D
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Great post.
 
MDP said:
I don't know why either, but why else do they get so wound up over someone else's business ?
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honestly how do you equate having an alternate viewpoint about system building with jealousy?

do you suppose 'non-box swappers' have a secret desire to be 'box swappers'?

not that some might not have the desire, but no more than some 'box swappers' likely also wish they could settle down with the right gear and just listen.

when someone starts a thread on an approach to gear acqusition it follows that alternate views will be part of that discussion.

right?

no one is knocking 'box swapping', just commenting on another perspective.
 
Never thought of myself as a box swapper but perhaps I am. There are no B&M store around here to demo gear so I do purchase what I think I will like and then compare it at home in my own room. Usually I keep the new item but sometimes I don't. This does get expensive. I justify it by calling it a hobby. I believe I am finished now but I have said that many times.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
the trick to long term ownership and equity retainment is...ta da.....no surprise....high performance for the dollar to begin with. and if you purchase brick and morter brands where the models turn over quickly and the margins are high and price/performance ratios are not outstanding, you cannot avoid considerable depreciation.

maybe i've just been lucky....but the speakers i've purchased since the year 2000 have all been scarce and desirable (and still current models) when i sold them and i ended up actually making a small profit on each one.

same preamp for 8 years but have the upgraded new one on order, and i know i will again make a small profit on this 8 year old preamp when i do sell it. i sold my 8 year old amp at a small profit 2 years ago when i upgraded. neither amp or preamp had changed over that time other than updates so the manufacturer protected the value.

i still have the same digital player aftrer 7 years.

depreciation? what is that?

it all comes down to finding the best performance for the dollar and a manufacturer that supports the product and the future value of the product.

there is simply more than one way to control depreciation. and buying the right gear to begin with helps.
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Mike...I also agree with what you are saying & that is the approach I have taken. I'm not a flipper and have selected equipment for longer term ownership based on performance, quality, brand reputation, product lifecycle trending. I'd like to be a flipper if I had the time & space & could be assured that I could move the gear onwards in our tiny domestic market. Flipping HiFi in Australia is challenging enough for the dealers, let alone doing something like co-ordinating or being part of a flip ring of 'select customers' that would subscribe to wholesale re-stocking fees.

Every brand that I have selected, historically meets that criterion except Shunyata. Shunyata products tend not to have long product lifecycles and their marketing strategy is geared towards encouraging their customers to jump onto the upgrade train.
 
Steve said:
Every brand that I have selected, historically meets that criterion except Shunyata. Shunyata products tend not to have long product lifecycles and their marketing strategy is geared towards encouraging their customers to jump onto the upgrade train.
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LOL. You sure have a hard-on for Shunyata bashing. Just because the $99 Venom Defender didn't meet your expectations. Even after the founder said no problem, just return it for a refund. Even after getting banned from another site for non-stop bashing.

The 'problem' with Shunyata is they are continually researching the science behind cables, and as they better understand cable technology, they make it available as a product.

For example, within the last year they introduced their TOL digital cable, the Anaconda in either AES or RCA. Well, after introducing that cable, they perfected a better digital cable technology. So, rather than introduce an even higher priced cable, which would probably irritate the owners of the current TOL Anaconda, or delay the introduction for a couple of years, they gave all Anaconda owners a free upgrade, and sell the new cable for the same price as the previous.

I know because I received two of the new cables, and they are fantastic. Plus, from a physical perspective, they are much thinner and more easily manageable.

Of course, the previous generations of cables are fine, but the newer are better.

I suspect for every 1 Shunyata basher there are 999 Shunyata supporters.
 
Bud...

Your accusation is inaccurate.
I have never been banned from a forum or other site. I did PM a resignation on another forum. I was a fully paid member, donator and a sizeable customer when I resigned.
I own Shunyata product.
There is no question about the Venom Defender. The product on its own is not approved for use in Australia when I last checked.
I have had no issue obtaining refund for the return of Shunyata product. I have even been patient and flexible with the dealer.
My opinion is valid. YMMV.

And want about you? You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time promoting Shunyata and retaliating against opinion posted on many website forums. Like a water boy, it goes back many years. Is there any affiliation that you need to disclose...?

This thread is about box/product flipping. Given your history, no doubt you are a Shunyata flipper. If you want to promote the brand, perhaps you should take your excitement to the Shunyata thread.
 
Bud, Yes you have made the wrong assumption & it does warrant an apology.
 
Ok guys, enough. We know that other forum owners can be bullied by manufacturers when someone isn't a fan of their products. But that doesn't happen here.

I own Shunyata products. But let's not rehash old BS from other forums. I know both of you and you're both great guys.

Let's get back to the topic at hand.
 
As for this box swapper thread.....It is an interesting one that's for sure. Are box swappers more about the gear and less about the music? Are box turtles more about the music and care a lot less about the gear? Are box turtles more about the system and less about the individual pieces? Do box swappers listen for the faults and box turtles listen for the beauty in the music?

Or is all this a lot deeper? Are box swappers less content in life and those personalities which constantly strive for better? Are box swappers those kids who would play with a new Christmas toy for 5 minutes and then move on? Are box turtles those kids who would get 5 Christmas presents, only open one and play with it for hours and hours before opening another? Could all this be a left brain/right brain argument? Are box turtles afraid of change? Did we even have gear swapping before the internet? Did the internet create gear swapping?
 
Mike, thanks. That might be an iPad IOS 8.1 issue. I had some text, and then tried to insert two images, and then more text. The result was gooble-de-gook with HTML such as 'color', 'rgb', and beaucoup numbers throughout the entire post. Granted, I am off today, so I am drinking beer now, but I haven't had that much beer. :)
 
BlueFox said:
Mike, thanks. That might be an iPad IOS 8.1 issue. I had some text, and then tried to insert two images, and then more text. The result was gooble-de-gook with HTML such as 'color', 'rgb', and beaucoup numbers throughout the entire post. Granted, I am off today, so I am drinking beer now, but I haven't had that much beer. :)
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No problem. I just think that if you guys really knew each other, you would probably be good friends. You're both great guys.
 
Mike said:
As for this box swapper thread.....It is an interesting one that's for sure. Are box swappers more about the gear and less about the music? Are box turtles more about the music and care a lot less about the gear? Are box turtles more about the system and less about the individual pieces? Do box swappers listen for the faults and box turtles listen for the beauty in the music?

Or is all this a lot deeper? Are box swappers less content in life and those personalities which constantly strive for better? Are box swappers those kids who would play with a new Christmas toy for 5 minutes and then move on? Are box turtles those kids who would get 5 Christmas presents, only open one and play with it for hours and hours before opening another? Could all this be a left brain/right brain argument? Are box turtles afraid of change? Did we even have gear swapping before the internet? Did the internet create gear swapping?
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You know Mike, I think it depends on where a person is in their life. I used to be a box swapper when I was working and a lot younger than I am now. But after the wife and I retired, you introduce new priorities into your life and some of those represent a bucket list of sorts and new speakers and cool Pass amps didn't make the list. You have to work within your means ($$). We also find that since retirement we just don't stay home as much to listen to music as we once did as other hobbies and doing things together have taken over our time... For box swappers, I can honestly tell ya, I admire those that still look for the enjoyment music and musical gear brings to them. I say keep those cool post about new speakers, amps and TT coming as it does bring enjoyment to those that like to read about others entertaining box swapping.

ps: Cool post
 
Thanks Mike.

Often the written word can be harshly misconstrued and the true intention misunderstood.

You pose some interesting questions above to reflect upon.

I believe the internet plays a role. Forums such as this brings all manner of people together, allowing for collaboration, sharing and opinion. It allows the newby to research and encourages the audiophile to tweak, flip and upgrade. All of this is good for the industry, manufacturers and dealers alike. In many parts of the world, the product representation or consignment is simply not there. Unfortunately, purchases are often made blindly given these circumstances. The subjective nature and complexity of HiFi can be very daunting. What works in one particular application may not be a good fit in another. Opinions and examples of real world applications can really help people with their decision making processes. I am happy that we have flippers that are prepared to share their experiences with us of those who may not be positioned to rotate equipment so readily, whatever the circumstance.
 
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