Mike Lavigne
Member
Mike, thank you for the response. i was not aware of that banning event.
Bob’s System Evolution
- Thread starter Bobvin
- Start date
Mike, thank you for the response. i was not aware of that banning event.
Mike Lavigne
Member
there are no rules for selling hifi gear, it's all over the map. i do respect that Mike has to navigate that map.
i was chastised on What's Best Forum for posting a 'Jay's Audio Journey' video that mentioned the Taiko Extreme server. why? because Mike was in it and he was banned on WBF. like i should worry about stuff like that? forum politics
. i'm here for fun only, not negativity.it irritated me so much i withdrew from WBF for 2 months.
there are no rules for selling hifi gear, it's all over the map. i do respect that Mike has to navigate that map.
i was chastised on What's Best Forum for posting a 'Jay's Audio Journey' video that mentioned the Taiko Extreme server. why? because Mike was in it and he was banned on WBF. like i should worry about stuff like that? forum politics
it irritated me so much i withdrew from WBF for 2 months.
Yeah, that was a total joke. Back in 2019, we were asked by On A Higher Note to post the date and time of our Abbey Road event on WBF. We did as requested and 5 minutes later, banned.
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there are no rules for selling hifi gear, it's all over the map. i do respect that Mike has to navigate that map.
i was chastised on What's Best Forum for posting a 'Jay's Audio Journey' video that mentioned the Taiko Extreme server. why? because Mike was in it and he was banned on WBF. like i should worry about stuff like that? forum politics
it irritated me so much i withdrew from WBF for 2 months.
Just to clarify, the spirit of the marketplace is focused on used gear.
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CPP
Active member
MY favorite room is the wine room
Bobvin
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
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- 1,068
- Thread Author
- #27
mep, you’ve seen through my plot… here I thought I was going to be able to lure seasoned, experienced, wealthy audiophiles to my lair, get 'em drunk with my cellar full of cheap box wine (that I’ve put into bottles with labels I created on my computer), then force them to listen to counterfeit audio gear (just look at that Pilium amp—that case is big enough to hide all manner of cheap home theater type receivers!)
Then, what, maybe steal their wallets?
My journey as an audiophile has been limited to what I had exposure to. Someone considering spending $100,000 or more on speakers will most likely want to know what’s out there other than Wilson, Magico, Focal, etc. Having the Alsyvoz, Diesis, and Bayz in house now for a few weeks I can say they are all worthy competitors, each different, each exceptional in their own ways. If you were in the market for new speakers, wouldn’t you want to hear what’s available?
One thing I love about this hobby is that, for the most part, it is populated by nice people who share a love of music and gear. There are jerks and assholes too, fortunately they are pretty rare. Someone considering $100k for new speakers, or similar amounts for components, isn’t going to be talked into anything. I sure as hell don’t have the desire or energy to convince anyone of anything—a benefit of age and wisdom I suppose. People make their own decisions; its nice to have multiple data points from which to do so.
West of Chicago or Dallas, there are only a couple places to hear Pilium, Alsyvox, Diesis, and Bayz. I am blessed to have a room where folks can hear this kit at its best, and a willingness to share.
Please mep, do not come. You won’t like it. (or me, apparently)
Rob181
Member
Oh please - lets call this for what it is - you have made a deal with Rhapsody - this is a business deal - pure & simple - to call it anything else is just BS. All anyone who questions my summation needs to do is wander over to WBF & read your posts on there. The " lay down misère" is the Pre Amp - Amp/s & three completely different sets of speakers - each north of $100k - come from Rhapsody. This business model was tried in AUS a number of years ago by a particular company - it has since quietly lapsed into a coma.
Bobvin
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- #29
Yeah, so? In the thread I affirmed that there is a profit motive, so yes a business arrangement has been made. I am not hiding that. But for you to question my motivations is lame, we have never met, never spoken, you know nothing about me.
And the worst that could happen is I don’t like it and sell everything. Why do you care? The only person I have to please is my wife, who encouraged this adventure from the beginning. Tell me again what is bad about having three world class speakers and some killer components to listen to? Have you heard them? When was the last time you had three pairs of, as you say, $100k speakers in your home for extended audition. What did you learn about them — please share something valuable rather than sniping.
Mike Lavigne
Member
knowing Bob, i'll just say this. he does not need hifi for income, and this endeavour of his is 98% indulging his passion, and 2% about possible (if unlikely) profit. he gets to play with toys he would never otherwise be able to rationalize. i'd relate it to being a hifi reviewer. sure you get perks, but it's a lot of effort and commitment. he is providing people with access to products they otherwise would not have. that is a huge dollar and space commitment.
yes; it does cross the line of commerce. so he has to take the flack. and i get that part. it does not come with the benefit of the doubt.
we do not own any gear in common except our phono cartridges, which i referred him to, it's not related to Bob's business. so i don't have a dog in the fight other than he is my friend.
i will add that i've been asked to do what he is doing more than a few times, and passed. hifi is fun only for me. yet still people travel to my room to hear things they can't otherwise hear. i enjoy that, and i know Bob does too.
yes; it does cross the line of commerce. so he has to take the flack. and i get that part. it does not come with the benefit of the doubt.
we do not own any gear in common except our phono cartridges, which i referred him to, it's not related to Bob's business. so i don't have a dog in the fight other than he is my friend.
i will add that i've been asked to do what he is doing more than a few times, and passed. hifi is fun only for me. yet still people travel to my room to hear things they can't otherwise hear. i enjoy that, and i know Bob does too.
i have no idea of the history between the AS forum and rhapsody... so notwithstanding, i am happy the hear what a fellow member is up to. i find it interesting that bob has found a new corner of the market to explore, one that most if not all of us will never participate in. i simply enjoy learning about it and living vicariously.
the fact that it is at least partially a for profit undertaking does not bother me ...and, i find it no different than the many, many others here who are involved in the business end of this hobby and post similarly.
again, there may be more below the surface here, but at least on the surface i can't really see what all the agita is about.
besides, anything that causes bob to post more photos of his listening room...
the fact that it is at least partially a for profit undertaking does not bother me ...and, i find it no different than the many, many others here who are involved in the business end of this hobby and post similarly.
again, there may be more below the surface here, but at least on the surface i can't really see what all the agita is about.
besides, anything that causes bob to post more photos of his listening room...
puroagave
Active member
Who cares if its a business proposition, no one should work for free I would hope Bobvin is paid something. That said, somehow I don't think the money involved will change his life. I just noticed Scott Walker opened a store in TX in addition to his California store. Is his TX location a 'real store' and is it for profit? I hope so. I've purchased gear from both Mike Bovaird and Bob Visintainer (the main Bob) and they are top notch at what they do. If all 'dealers' actually provided the kind of customer care I received from them this industry will be in great shape.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I think it is great that Bob offers this service that folks would not otherwise have. I would fully expect him to get something for allowing people to come to his home and audition these extreme high end products. I also fully believe profit is not a motivating factor, but instead having these amazing products in his gorgeous home to listen to whenever he likes is probably the top consideration!
Congratulation Bob! I also still think your room is fantastic!
Congratulation Bob! I also still think your room is fantastic!
I won't indulge in what's right or what's wrong or if someone has crossed the line in this forum or if there is conflict of interest - that is for the site owner Mike to decide. But what I will say is that your room Bob is fantastic and very warm & inviting. I would be blessed to have a room like that.
However, I do have a question for you Bob - out of the three great speakers, which one do you personally listen the most and your personal liking ?
However, I do have a question for you Bob - out of the three great speakers, which one do you personally listen the most and your personal liking ?
Bobvin
Active member
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- #35
First, thanks for the kind words. As to your question... finally somebody wants to know about the SOUND!
Unfortunately, I believe it would be premature to give much of a definitive statement, as things are just starting to come 'round with respect to burn-in. The Alsyvox with their external crossovers still likely have a ways to go, I'd say they could probably use another 100 hours with about 150 hours so far. The Diesis, too, likely have a little further to go. The Bayz are probably pretty damn close.
Then there is the Pilium pre and power amp. The pre-amp is probably pretty well settled, I had it for a time before the amp arrived. I was lucky to have a friend loan me a pair of MBL mono amps so we could hear the Diesis which were the first speakers to have arrived. A little bit later I was loaned a DartZeel NHB-108 v2 from Jonathan Tinn here in Portland (who is the DartZeel distributor.)
(And a shout-out to Jonathan whom I've never met—and as I said before this hobby is mostly made up of kind and sincere people. Being loaned a $53,000 amp from someone you've never met? How great is that! Thank you Jonathan I enjoyed my time with the amp.)
Now the big Pilium Achilles amp (Mighty Achilles!) is getting run-in, but it, with its HUGE capacitors, is taking the longest. Its coming around after having the typical ups and downs along the way. This Pilium kit is the real deal, another level altogether vs. my prior Audio Research Reference components. It is amazingly neutral, allowing the qualities of each speaker to be heard without coloration of the amplification. It took about 30 seconds of listening to the pre-amp to recognize, right out of the box, the huge distance between it and the ARC, which I loved.
The Diesis Roma I'm in love with—they are very, very special. Effortless, soulful, romantic. The Alsyvox—holy hell these are SPECTACULAR speakers. A planar that can go to 22hz eliminates any need for a sub. Between the Diesis and Alsyvox, at this early stage, I would offer a Venn Diagram, with the Diesis slightly left of center if the line split between subjective and objective, and the Alsyvox to the right of center, with a big overlap in the middle. So far, I could live happily with either. Diesis maybe slightly more romantic, Alsyvox slightly more analytical. They will appeal differently depending on your taste.
Then there are the Bayz. These are speakers that will fool you. Sure, the looks are super cool, but they play way bigger than the drivers would suggest. I'm still tinkering with placement—in my room too close to the corner the bass can get a bit of overhang, too far out the bass becomes too reticent which shifts the tonal character. I think I have them close, at this point it is fine tuning and we all know small changes sometimes are all that is needed to get everything to snap into focus. That said, the omni-directional design just fills the room with sound. I've never owned anything like it myself, though I have heard my friends MBLs so recognize the sound but my room and their rooms are waaaay different. And the Bayz radial spearker (BRS) is very different from the approach MBL uses. I'd say the Bayz model I have, the smaller Courante 2.0 (at ~ half the price of the other speakers), gives up only a wee-bit of heft or "gravitas". For most rooms however you'd never know it, and only in comparing with the others would that difference be evident. The bigger Bayz, the Counterpoint 2.0 model, I think would wipe away any percieved lack of heft, but it could be way too much for a smaller room. A GREAT benefit of the omni design is the sweet spot is quite huge, you don't have to be anchored in the perfect position.
Again, these are but early, first takes on forming opinions of each speaker.
Rob181
Member
Your motivation was not questioned - your hypocrisy in attempting to deflect from the fact this is a business decision on a website owned & managed by an indirect competitor is - the thread title is all the evidence needed to validate same. As for the question of whether that is morally ethical - others can judge for themselves.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Honestly, I would believe that a business decision would indicating that profit and making money are a prime motive. I have never meet Bob, but from several conversations and discussions on this forum over the years I am 1000% sure that he does not need the money.... which means there are other motives, as have been discussed above.
Rob181
Member
Whether Bob "needs" the money or not is not relevant - the hypocrisy in how it was presented was - your net worth shouldn't change your ethical business values.
I have no dog in this fight, but I applaud Bob's initiative to dive deep into the rabbit hole and bring others along for the ride. Plus I dig his room (and his wine cellar!). Keep it coming Bob, pending Mike's higher authority in these matters.