Big 7 vs Chord DAVE

majnun70

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I've seen some sporadic discussions of the DAVE, but am hoping to get some comparisons. I've had a R2R/DSD256 Big 7 for over a year now and am beginning to feel some (needless) restlessness. I know I can get it updated with DSD512 and superclock, or even up to GG, but I've lately been curious about the DAVE. I'm hoping to get past this period of restlessness and just enjoy what I have (especially as I can vary the B7 with Tak 300B, EML 45/2A3 Mesh), but surely some information wouldn't hurt, right...?
 
How close are you to Florida? In the times I have loaned someone locally here (or done a shootout in the store between the Lampi and the Chord DAVE), the Chord DAVE has been selected by a margin of 2:1. That doesn't mean the DAVE is better, but those are the facts. As one example, hopefully Larry will chime in.

The Chord DAVE is also my #1 selling digital product around that $10K price point (MSRP is now $9995).

Sonically, the Chord DAVE is very "3D", dead quiet, offers excellent instrument separation, great bass control and if you care, a great headphone amp to boot.
 
IMO it will go down to a personal taste. Chord will offer greater resolution, instrument separation and better bass articulation, at an expense of some midrange body and overall realism, certain 'you are there' feeling that is unique in my experience with Lampi.

Very much like the Trinity DAC that I owned vs Lampi (which I have now).
 
IMO it will go down to a personal taste. Chord will offer greater resolution, instrument separation and better bass articulation, at an expense of some midrange body and overall realism, certain 'you are there' feeling that is unique in my experience with Lampi.

Very much like the Trinity DAC that I owned vs Lampi (which I have now).

Agreed.
 
I was about to post my impressions on my new Dave. My previous Dac was a Schitt Yggdrasil which kept me happy for the last 4 years having replaced my ps audio PWD2.
Like you I was having the upgrade itch and really didn't know what to expect in my testing as I had been satisfied with my Yggdrasil. First I tried out the Lampizator Atlantic and couldn't discern a clear victor. Then I tried the Dave and it was quite different in my system bringing out and separating instruments and vocals. Being a Beatle and Stones lover their recordings just never sounded as good as today's offerings so I didn't listen to them very often. Enter the Dave and wow all the stuff I love sounded a level or 2 better. I resisted till I listened to the new Ayre Qx5 Twenty and although its resolution was better than my Yggdrasil it couldn't erase my memory of the Daves 3D presentation and when the price dropped as Mike says resistance was futile.
In my hours of A/B the impressions what I conclude is that maybe midrange is pulled back a hair allowing vocals or lead instruments to shine a bit more. A little more contrast or dynamic range in performances. But I can't sense anything lacking in that midrange.....maybe just not as intrusive.
The Dave over in Head-Fi and the Yggdrasil are the two most lusted after Dacs around And for good reasons.
An added benefit to the Dave is that it also has a first class headphone amp built in. So if you ever wanted to get into headphones pick up this Dac and maybe a pair of Sennheiser HD800 and explore a different form of audio enjoyment.
Larry
 
I've seen some sporadic discussions of the DAVE, but am hoping to get some comparisons. I've had a R2R/DSD256 Big 7 for over a year now and am beginning to feel some (needless) restlessness. I know I can get it updated with DSD512 and superclock, or even up to GG, but I've lately been curious about the DAVE. I'm hoping to get past this period of restlessness and just enjoy what I have (especially as I can vary the B7 with Tak 300B, EML 45/2A3 Mesh), but surely some information wouldn't hurt, right...?

You need to upgrade valves to get a boost as well as the clock. But to keep it cheaper, best get KR 242 and Px25. Can't make out which recti you have but the special KR anniversary recti for Lampi added a lot. The 242 bring out SS like resolution, details, lower noise floor, retaining the valve magic. At least for the group here the EML 45, 2a3, followed by 300bs from Elrog and KR were the least impressive. They especially lacked drive and dynamics as compared to Px4, Px25, 242, and the special anniversary EML globe 45.
 
Also I will soon do a compare between Golden Atlantic and the big 7 and golden gate. Will keep you posted
 
@ majnun70, glad that you started this thread. Don't own either now - had the Lumin A1 - but these would be among those that I would be looking at when the upgrade itch starts.

It helps that both can be used as a preamp to drive a power amp directly, although the DAVE uses digital attenuation whereas the Lampi (if so equipped) uses an analog one.

The difficulty in obtaining comparative views is that different forums tend to talk more about one than the other.

For example, over at headfi, the DAVE reigns supreme, in that many owners tend to post positively about it, and have compared it to other top notch contenders, such as MSB, Nagra, Berkeley and even dCS. Most though tend to use it with cans and the headphone amp rather than with a 2CH system. Oddly enough, there are few posts there about the Lampi Big 7/GG, let alone direct comparisons against the DAVE.

Otoh, Lampi owners/fans tend to post in forums where not many DAVE owners post.

IMO only, I view the DAVE as being more advanced from a digital technology perspective, with its FPGA based, proprietary, DSP filter - WTA (Watts Transient Aligned) and its ability to better depth of soundstage compared to others.

Chord has now introduced the Blu2 and, although marketed as a CD transport, its USP is its oversampling function. Combined with the DAVE, it claims to be able to do 1,000,000 taps filtering (the DAVE only achieves 164,000 taps).

There is then the promise of a new type of Chord amplifier in future, where the D/A conversion takes place at the amplifier and not in the DAVE. So, the DAVE will send 705/768 kHz digital signals to the amplifier, which will then perform the D/A conversion and amplification.

Chord product lines tend to be more stable, without frequent improvements. But, they employ switched mode not linear power supplies, do not use much in terms of exotic parts and employ digital attenuation (but with 69-bit (?) precision). And, they are SS.

OTOH, IMO, Lampi tends to focus on the power supplies, DHT output stage and exotic parts. Their R2R section is, afaik, based on the Soekris modules and they employ an analog VC (TAIV VC-03). They have not (by intention, I believe) disclosed what "digital engines" they use. Frequent tinkering and improvements in product specifications are not unusual.

Both have their devotees. If you are in the US, Mike would be able to demo both for you or even, I assume, loan the DAVE to you.

As an alternative to DAVE and, possibly a left field choice (its too affordable), there is the T+A DAC8 DSD.

Over at Computer Audiophile and WBF, some have compared this with the DAVE and say that, when fed with a DSD512 signal upsampled using HQ Player, it can outpoint the DAVE. It also has an analog volume control. This is on the assumption that you use or are willing to use a Windows PC server.
 
I really enjoy the DAVE. I moved from a PS Audio Direct Stream to a Berkley Alpha DAC Reference and then to the DAVE.

For me, I enjoyed the Direct Stream for several years, and the upgrade software process was fun, but the Berkley Alpha DAC was in another league. More natural, more open, more toe tapping.

The move from the Berkley Reference was more subtle, but for me, the Chord DAVE is more enjoyable. Herbie Hancock Head Hunters, Alabama Shakes Sound and Color, Daft Punk Random Access Memories, Sara Bareilles Brave Enough: Live, all sounded a little more natural to me, and the best I have ever heard them.

It took me a few days of listening to come to a conclusion. It did not happen the minute I turned it on, being I was coming from a very wonderful DAC to start with. All of the things I liked about the Berkley, the DAVE just had them a little more. Very natural, the sound stage is amazing, and more toe tapping.

I also enjoy the DSD feature set of the Chord DAVE, as I have a large DSD collection.

I got the Darth Vader Black version and it fits nicely on a carbon dampening platform that it lives on.
 
I really enjoy the DAVE. I moved from a PS Audio Direct Stream to a Berkley Alpha DAC Reference and then to the DAVE.

For me, I enjoyed the Direct Stream for several years, and the upgrade software process was fun, but the Berkley Alpha DAC was in another league. More natural, more open, more toe tapping.

The move from the Berkley Reference was more subtle, but for me, the Chord DAVE is more enjoyable. Herbie Hancock Head Hunters, Alabama Shakes Sound and Color, Daft Punk Random Access Memories, Sara Bareilles Brave Enough: Live, all sounded a little more natural to me, and the best I have ever heard them.

It took me a few days of listening to come to a conclusion. It did not happen the minute I turned it on, being I was coming from a very wonderful DAC to start with. All of the things I liked about the Berkley, the DAVE just had them a little more. Very natural, the sound stage is amazing, and more toe tapping.

I also enjoy the DSD feature set of the Chord DAVE, as I have a large DSD collection.

I got the Darth Vader Black version and it fits nicely on a carbon dampening platform that it lives on.
Noah - Welcome to AudioShark! I find your comments very interesting especially comparing the Chord DAVE to the Berkeley Reference DAC. Was your Berkeley the Series 2? Also regarding your favorable impressions of DSD with DAVE, do you reboot the Chord when changing between PCM and DSD files to run it in the mode that is optimized for each (I believe they are referred to as PCM+ / DSD+)? Thanks for sharing your impressions.

I'd also welcome other DAVE users comments on the two modes of operation and whether you find it necessary to switch between them for PCM and DSD playback, as it seems like that would be a hassle and prevent mixed format playlists. TIA!
 
Thanks, Noah. Did you listen to other competing DACs before deciding on the DAVE? Also, do you prefer running it direct or through a pre amp?
 
How close are you to Florida? In the times I have loaned someone locally here (or done a shootout in the store between the Lampi and the Chord DAVE), the Chord DAVE has been selected by a margin of 2:1. That doesn't mean the DAVE is better, but those are the facts. As one example, hopefully Larry will chime in.

The Chord DAVE is also my #1 selling digital product around that $10K price point (MSRP is now $9995).

Sonically, the Chord DAVE is very "3D", dead quiet, offers excellent instrument separation, great bass control and if you care, a great headphone amp to boot.

Thanks, but I'm afraid I'm quite far from Florida. Of the people who chose the DAVE over Big 7, would you have advised that some of what they liked about DAVE could be achieved in Big 7 via tube-rolling?
 
I was about to post my impressions on my new Dave. My previous Dac was a Schitt Yggdrasil which kept me happy for the last 4 years having replaced my ps audio PWD2.
Like you I was having the upgrade itch and really didn't know what to expect in my testing as I had been satisfied with my Yggdrasil. First I tried out the Lampizator Atlantic and couldn't discern a clear victor. Then I tried the Dave and it was quite different in my system bringing out and separating instruments and vocals. Being a Beatle and Stones lover their recordings just never sounded as good as today's offerings so I didn't listen to them very often. Enter the Dave and wow all the stuff I love sounded a level or 2 better. I resisted till I listened to the new Ayre Qx5 Twenty and although its resolution was better than my Yggdrasil it couldn't erase my memory of the Daves 3D presentation and when the price dropped as Mike says resistance was futile.
In my hours of A/B the impressions what I conclude is that maybe midrange is pulled back a hair allowing vocals or lead instruments to shine a bit more. A little more contrast or dynamic range in performances. But I can't sense anything lacking in that midrange.....maybe just not as intrusive.
The Dave over in Head-Fi and the Yggdrasil are the two most lusted after Dacs around And for good reasons.
An added benefit to the Dave is that it also has a first class headphone amp built in. So if you ever wanted to get into headphones pick up this Dac and maybe a pair of Sennheiser HD800 and explore a different form of audio enjoyment.
Larry

Very interesting, thank you. I'm a bit concerned, and I know you were measured in your description, about the midrange on DAVE. While I've never had speaker-based system gear that had a recessed midrange/vocals, I have had headphones/headamps that had it and I didn't like it. And if you wouldn't mind clarifying, does the slight recessive nature of the midrange on DAVE necessarily mean that the instruments are forward in nature? I listen in a near-field setup (about six feet from speakers), so anything that sounds forward is a little too much for my room.
 
You need to upgrade valves to get a boost as well as the clock. But to keep it cheaper, best get KR 242 and Px25. Can't make out which recti you have but the special KR anniversary recti for Lampi added a lot. The 242 bring out SS like resolution, details, lower noise floor, retaining the valve magic. At least for the group here the EML 45, 2a3, followed by 300bs from Elrog and KR were the least impressive. They especially lacked drive and dynamics as compared to Px4, Px25, 242, and the special anniversary EML globe 45.

I have a WE 422A for rectifier, and primarily use Takatsuki 300B for output. I'm tempted to try PX4.
 
I really enjoy the DAVE. I moved from a PS Audio Direct Stream to a Berkley Alpha DAC Reference and then to the DAVE.

For me, I enjoyed the Direct Stream for several years, and the upgrade software process was fun, but the Berkley Alpha DAC was in another league. More natural, more open, more toe tapping.

The move from the Berkley Reference was more subtle, but for me, the Chord DAVE is more enjoyable. Herbie Hancock Head Hunters, Alabama Shakes Sound and Color, Daft Punk Random Access Memories, Sara Bareilles Brave Enough: Live, all sounded a little more natural to me, and the best I have ever heard them.

It took me a few days of listening to come to a conclusion. It did not happen the minute I turned it on, being I was coming from a very wonderful DAC to start with. All of the things I liked about the Berkley, the DAVE just had them a little more. Very natural, the sound stage is amazing, and more toe tapping.

I also enjoy the DSD feature set of the Chord DAVE, as I have a large DSD collection.

I got the Darth Vader Black version and it fits nicely on a carbon dampening platform that it lives on.

I don't want to focus too much on what I'm sure was a relatively minor comment from dguitarnut, but could you compare the midrange of DAVE vs BADA Reference?
 
Very interesting, thank you. I'm a bit concerned, and I know you were measured in your description, about the midrange on DAVE. While I've never had speaker-based system gear that had a recessed midrange/vocals, I have had headphones/headamps that had it and I didn't like it. And if you wouldn't mind clarifying, does the slight recessive nature of the midrange on DAVE necessarily mean that the instruments are forward in nature? I listen in a near-field setup (about six feet from speakers), so anything that sounds forward is a little too much for my room.
I listen to my speakers near-field also. The background instruments just seem to have more separation from the vocals or lead instruments. So the Dave seems to project a more live presentation.....not as compressed as with my previous dacs. I sit 5 feet from my speakers and the speakers are 5 feet apart and 3 feet from side walls.
 
Thanks, Noah. Did you listen to other competing DACs before deciding on the DAVE? Also, do you prefer running it direct or through a pre amp?

I was listening primarily between the Berkley Alpha Reference and the DAVE in my move up to the DAVE. I had listened and lived with a ton of DACs prior to that, and for the most part have not looked back.

I have not yet had the opportunity to listen to the Alpha Reference 2 vs the DAVE. I will do that at some point, but I do not expect to give up my DAVE when I do, although I have been surprised before!

If anyone is interested in listening to the DAVE vs their Lampizator Big 7 and is in the Bay Area (California) I would love to do that.

I am running it direct right now, but I prefer the flexibility of a good preamp, I just do not have one right this second (audio budget issues). The sound running direct is very clean and wonderful and if I had not a/b the two I would not be missing anything, but I have and do prefer the sound through a Constellation Virgo III pre or through a more modestly priced VAC Renaissance 5 Pre, plus I need a preamp to play my records!

My one small gripe about the Chord DAVE is the remote control. They paired the remote down from the Chord "control everything" model to a simpler model, but the new simpler remote is not to my liking. I would like it to be simple and metal and for the remote to feel as awesome as the unit sounds. It does not, instead I think the remote comes across as an afterthought and kind of cheap feeling. Not the end of the world, but still, I would appreciate a nicer remote for a a really special piece of gear like the DAVE.
 
Noah - Welcome to AudioShark! I find your comments very interesting especially comparing the Chord DAVE to the Berkeley Reference DAC. Was your Berkeley the Series 2? Also regarding your favorable impressions of DSD with DAVE, do you reboot the Chord when changing between PCM and DSD files to run it in the mode that is optimized for each (I believe they are referred to as PCM+ / DSD+)? Thanks for sharing your impressions.

I'd also welcome other DAVE users comments on the two modes of operation and whether you find it necessary to switch between them for PCM and DSD playback, as it seems like that would be a hassle and prevent mixed format playlists. TIA!

Hi Bill - My Berkley was not Series 2. I have not had a Series 2 vs DAVE shoot out yet, but I will keep you posted when it happens. Several of my friends and customers are waiting on their Series 2 upgrade, so at some point I will compare them.

As for the PCM / DSD filter, I usually just leave it on PCM when I have mixed playlists. When I am listening to an entire DSD record (if I remember) I put it on DSD plus. This can be done from the remote, and the unit is muted for about 10 seconds when you change from PCM to DSD. It is not a huge difference but the DSD playback on the DAVE in both DSD Plus mode, and in PCM Plus mode is stunning and among the best I have heard.
 
I have a WE 422A for rectifier, and primarily use Takatsuki 300B for output. I'm tempted to try PX4.
I think you should seriously consider upgrading the B7. My GG had version 1 R2R and I sent it back for a firmware update to the ladder, DSD512 and superclocks and its a WOW improvement. Far less than the cost of a new Dac. I find my bass is MUCH improved. I have a vinyl 45 rip of Satchmo's St James infirmary that plays spooky real natively at dsd128. Tried it on the impressive Goldmund ProLogos active speaker (which converts all to 24/96) and the midrange magic was no longer there, even as it was a very good rendition that it gave. The palpability was lost. I am yet to hear any SS rendition that can give the same magic...but that is just me. Also, Chord is not real DSD. Its some kinda hybrid processing and the designer hates DSD anyway...says it can't sound good.
https://www.amazon.com/St-James-Inf...489910958&sr=1-10&keywords=st+james+infirmary

I heard the DAVE under show conditions and thought it was very good. Streets and lanes ahead of the Hugo, which i THINK IS MEDIOCRE. I have a Chord QUTE EX which to me is in the Hugo performance range. To my taste, I prefer the Lampi....but things have been improving all over, so a year from now, who knows? I have been told that MSB mid and upper range models have stepped up big with new firmware. The Select 1 did not impress me, but I hear that the Select 2 is another animal altogether!
 
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