Berkeley Alpha DAC Reference Series 2 Announced

Glad there is an upgrade path. Also, like the pre-set schedule to do the upgrade so that owners can get their DACs back in a couple of weeks.

As an editorial comment, I continue to be amazed at the fast rising prices of DACs. I still have my ARC DAC8 which I have not been able to sell - even though I'm prectically giving it away.

Look forward to getting more info and reading audition perspectives on the BADA Ref2.
 
A world class PCM DAC for under $20K. You could spend a lot more than this and not do as well.

Then there is: Expectation management. As I understand it, Berk could only make so many units a week and maintain quality control. But some customers weren't told or didn't realize that they would be waiting months on end for this world class performing DAC. Some people moved on before they even took possession of the Ref I. Who can blame someone who had to wait up to eight months to receive their unit.

If the customer was told up front, would audiophiles wait that many months? Some might have and others wouldn't have.

If the Ref II is an improvement on the Ref I and is still under $20K then it is a relative bargain.

Hopefully lessons are learned and accurate delivery dates can be established.
 
Cycleman said:
I'm curious - did you order a Berkeley Ref eight months ago, and it never came through?

Was your dealer not helpful?

Did you investigate the (mildly) used market?

Dave, who regularly sees Berkeley Refs for sale with claimed 9/10 condition
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Dave, I asked the importer here in Australia & they wanted a deposit before the dac hit our shores, that also included the wait. The waiting was a very common thread on the net. In my mind it's foolish to chase the latest digital, tried it & got flat out thinking like Custer at his last stand!
 
KeithR said:
also, an upgraded dac won't be worth an original Ref Series 2.
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Exactly. There is so much wrong here....for both customers and dealers. First question potential buyers will ask...."Original or upgraded V2?"
 
KeithR said:
also, an upgraded dac won't be worth an original Ref Series 2.
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BruceLet said:
Exactly. There is so much wrong here....for both customers and dealers. First question potential buyers will ask...."Original or upgraded V2?"
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That's likely true. If all are in the same condition, an upgraded Ref 2 will probably sell for less than an orignal Ref 2, but it will probably sell for more than an original Ref 1.

But more so, these concerns seem to have an element of investing.
Are you buying audio toys to shelter your spending?
Or are you buying audio toys to increase your joy in listening to recorded music?

Dave, who has "lost" money by buying and selling both audio toys and cycling toys and yet the extreme pleasure he's gotten from both areas has made his life far richer and in addition if you're the kind of person who is spending money on any DAC from Berkeley Audio Design you're likely not suffering financially

P.S. No, of course I don't like losing money, but raise your hand here if you're not an audio profesional and yet regularly turn a profit when you sell your used audio components...

P.P.S. What do you think Berkeley should do? Free upgrades are likely not possible. Some discount on the upgrade, based on when you've bought the original Ref 1 during the past year, say, would help with goodwill. Some price at their cost -- cost of parts, labor, shipping. But you do know that Berkeley is not a large company, and I personally would be very happy if they stay in business.
 
bzr said:
Dave, I asked the importer here in Australia & they wanted a deposit before the dac hit our shores, that also included the wait. The waiting was a very common thread on the net. In my mind it's foolish to chase the latest digital, tried it & got flat out thinking like Custer at his last stand!
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If one has paid a deposit and is still waiting for delivery of the Ref 1, would it then be after this Ref 2 announcement, as simple as paying the difference for the Ref 2 and then wait for delivery of the Ref 2 instead?
Or is the dealer insisting that one takes delivery of the Ref 1 first, and then have that upgraded to Ref 2?
 
I wouldn't buy a Berkeley, they're probably putting the finishing touches to Ref 3 already...... :fingers:
 
As far as PCM is concerned, Berkeley is at the top of their game. I am interested to learn more about the v2 upgrade and what that entails exactly. The Aurender N10 with the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC is a superb combination IMO. Ian (MadFloyd) heard the combo at my house and raved about it.
 
bzr said:
I wouldn't buy a Berkeley, they're probably putting the finishing touches to Ref 3 already...... :fingers:
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What's sad is that the Alpha Dac 2 has been out for much, much longer and at such an accessible price point for most audiophiles.
 
KeithR said:
What's sad is that the Alpha Dac 2 has been out for much, much longer and at such an accessible price point for most audiophiles.
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And that's sad because why...?
Really, Keith, why?

I mean, the Alpha DAC 2 offers about 85% of the same rich and clear sound quality as the Reference, and as you rightly note, "at such an accessible price point."
That's a good thing, because audio components are not just about upgrades but about how they perform RIGHT NOW in your music system.

So I'd use the word "nice" instead of "sad."

Dave, who loved the Alpha DAC 2 so much that he sold it at one of those accessible price points to buy a barely used Reference instead (thanks Sisyphus!) and those listening experiences in his own main music system are why he offered the figure 85% to approximately compare the smaller Berkeley DAC to the larger one
 
I bought the Alpha DAC 2 with Alpha USB, twice, and loved it. I am just very uneasy about this latest news. I am happy that it is ok with some of you more recent Berkeley owners.
 
BruceLet said:
I bought the Alpha DAC 2 with Alpha USB, twice, and loved it. I am just very uneasy about this latest news. I am happy that it is ok with some of you more recent Berkeley owners.
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Bruce, what specifically are you "uneasy" about?
It's not at all clear, at least as I read it.
 
I spoke to the folks at Berkeley today. The upgrades are both hardware and software related and quite significant from a sonic perspective. They were quite busy preparing for Newport, so I couldn't get all the details, but it's definitely sounding like a nice improvement and continued efforts for excellence on their part. They discussed the further improvement in the noise floor (hardware) as well as in the D-A conversion process (software) and more.
 
I always wondered what made the Reference DAC better sounding than the regular one. If you opened both up, they looked 99% identical. It was like the nicer box added $12k to the price of Berkeley DAC Series 2 ... that was a bit weird for an engineering driven company Berkely always tried to be.

Does the Ref Series 2 bring any more real hardware changes to the old design ?
 
Is cycleman Berkeley's advocate? The tone is a bit unfriendly to an otherwise friendly discussion.
 
Cycleman said:
Is looking alike enough to determine whether they actually are, or are not, identical?
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kzhtoo said:
Is cycleman Berkeley's advocate? The tone is a bit unfriendly to an otherwise friendly discussion.
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Oh please.
I own a Berkeley, I like the Berkeley. A lot.
But I am in no other way connected with Berkeley.
Only an advocate as every person on this forum might be about components that bring them great musical pleasure.

Besides, you mean asking a question about identical looks, since I'm trying to figure out that member's perspective, is really "unfriendly" from your point of view?
Why is asking questions unfriendly?
Where I come from, not caring enough what others say so that you do NOT ask questions in order to understand them -- well, that's the real impolite activity.

And "otherwise friendly discussion," you note...
Really?
One person is "uneasy" about the upgrade.
Another person is "sad" about the upgrade.
And that makes for an "otherwise friendly discussion"?
 
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