Benchmark DAC3

Looks very interesting, probably a "typical" Benchmark performance:price ratio :happy:
 
Just to note while the ES9028PRO is an improvement over the previous generation Sabre DACs, their new reference is the ES9038PRO which reportedly offers a significantly higher level of performance. Of course its cost is accordingly higher, but Randy's buddies over at W4S are offering all of the new series of Sabre DACs in their new DAC v2 Series.
 
audio.bill said:
Just to note while the ES9028PRO is an improvement over the previous generation Sabre DACs, their new reference is the ES9038PRO which reportedly offers a significantly higher level of performance. Of course its cost is accordingly higher, but Randy's buddies over at W4S are offering all of the new series of Sabre DACs in their new DAC v2 Series.
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I was waiting to get that info. It is nice that they offer all three variances. The Benchmark is using the 9028 Pro, so the same as the DAC-2v2. Will have to go to the SE version to get the 9038 Pro, putting you over $3000 for the DAC. My experience with the W4S DACs is that they are great.

The Benchmark is a different beast all together. It is a hybrid pre-amplifier (with two analog inputs), DAC and the HGC model is a top notch headphone amplifier. So the W4S are an excellent DAC and the two v2 models can act as a pre-amplifier is an all digital system, while the Benchmark is an excellent pre-amplifier in a digital and analog system, and also a headphone amplifier.
 
I think BM went with the ES9028Pro and not the '38 because it is pin compatible with the ES9018 used in the DAC2, while the '38 isn't.

OPPO uses the '38 in its $799 Sonica DAC so I don't think it was the cost of the chip that prevented BM to go with it, but more about the backward compatibility of the chip with their existing DAC design.
 
You may be correct. I know the DAC3 is identical to the DAC2 in virtually every other way. Also, from talking with them Benchmark takes a very conservative route. Something has to give an absolute viable reason/improvement for them to add support. As an example they only support DSD64 in the DAC2 and from reading the manual I assume in the DAC3 also. They may eventually add this support for higher DSD (maybe through a firmware update), however they feel there is no reason what so ever to offer DSD128 at this point, if ever.
 
rbbert said:
Looks very interesting, probably a "typical" Benchmark performance:price ratio :happy:
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I wonder if this is true today
The reviews of the first DAC1 where raving. This was the sub $1000 DAC punching well above is weight. Indeed an excellent price/performance ratio.

DAC1 $ 995
DAC1 USB $1295
DAC1 HDR $1895
DAC2 HGC $1995
Over time price increased substantial

I expect the DAC3 to be > $2000
One might wonder if they still have a good price/performance ratio
Compared with the many other ESS based DAC s like Mytek 192 Benchmark has become one of the more expensive offerings.
 
The DAC3 HGC is $2195. There are lower versions of the DAC2 which on considerably less. They are also currently offering a DAC3 L for $1895. The difference being no headphone amplifier, if you do not need it.

Remember the HGC models are not just DACs, but instead a full high end reference pre-amplifier with multiple analog inputs, top notch SOTA DAC and a headphone amplifier that competes with the best of the best. It competes against pre-amplifiers that cost a lot more, DACs that cost multiple times more, and headphones amplifiers that cost more.... therefore its cost performance ratio is one of the best money can buy.

I previous owned a pre-amplifier that cost $1995 by itself and could be doubled adding in upgrades. The companies same level DAC costs $2124 by itself, and add similar headphone amplifier from the same company costs $1195. So $5314 for same functionality with similar quality from a company who is constantly winning awards for best "value" equipment.

Stereophile recently listed their top rated DAC products. Of the models that they gave an A+ rating the average price was well over $5000. The only one that was close in pricing did not offer pre-amplifier and headphone amplifier functions.

Mytec that you mentioned. The replacement for the 192 is the Brooklyn which is priced at $1995. The Brooklyn has only one analog input and does not come with a remote. So in my system, for example, my SACD spinner and my tuner could not be hooked at the same time. Also the pre-amplifier stage is rated very low while the Benchmark is rated competing against the SOTA. The Benchmark also comes with an extremely nice metal remote! Yes the Brooklyn offers MQA which is one reason that I was actually considering it. Then I read benchmark's technical papers. They get down deep in the tech and offer all of these papers for anyone to read. In one of their papers they completely disproved MQA and as such stated they will never offer support for it.

Yes, I have done a ton of research before choosing a replacement to my prior pre-amplifier/DAC setup. The Benchmark continues to be one of the premier price/performance ratio products on the market. Add that they also back it with a five year warranty and that it is designed and built in the United States makes an unbeatable product.

By the way, I really liked the separate pre-amplifier and DAC that I previously owned. I consider it one of the finest value and top notch build quality on the market. My only reason for replacing the units was that I wanted a combined unit with full pre-amplifier functions. I needed to have a single unit not three separate. Joe can attest to you just how fantastic the pre-amplifier is :)...
 
Vincent Kars said:
I wonder if this is true today
The reviews of the first DAC1 where raving. This was the sub $1000 DAC punching well above is weight. Indeed an excellent price/performance ratio.

DAC1 $ 995
DAC1 USB $1295
DAC1 HDR $1895
DAC2 HGC $1995
Over time price increased substantial

I expect the DAC3 to be > $2000
One might wonder if they still have a good price/performance ratio
Compared with the many other ESS based DAC s like Mytek 192 Benchmark has become one of the more expensive offerings.
Click to expand...
I think the Mytek 192 is being discontinued, I don't know if they are planning a replacement. The DAC3 is $100 less than the Mytek Brooklyn with a similar feature set (except for MQA :D ) or $200 more if you go for the high-gain pre-amp version. And I think for many Mytek is a "benchmark" for high performance:price ratio?
 
From what I read the Brooklyn is the replacement of the 192. I did a lot of reading and comparison between the Brooklyn and the Benchmark because the Mytec is another one that was on my final choice list.

Pros: the Brooklyn offers higher level DSD support... DSD128 and DSD256. Benchmark specifically choose not to, they offer only DSD64. They have white papers on their reasoning. The Mytek also has MQA support; again Benchmark has white papers reviewing MQA and why they not only feel it is not better, but also why they will never support it. The Mytec also has the option of setting their analog input to be a phone pre-amplifier. This may be an advantage, but to me it is not. Very nice display with some nice glitz (some may like some not). Balanced headphone capabilities with a $179 (on sale for $159) adapter cable. Femto clock. 20 page all English manual, which appears to be a decent manual.

Cons: the Mytec Brooklyn uses the ESS Sabre 9018K2M chip which I have been told is the lower level 9018 chip, designed mainly for mobile use (i.e. my Pono player). It has a worse S/N ratio than the higher level 9018 chip. Having only one analog input limits expansion capability (i.e. my hooking up both my SACD spinner and Tuner at the same time). No included remote, however does support an Apple remote (yuk, yuk, blah, bad :( )... or Apple app for Apple phone (double yuk)... made in Poland (not terrible, but a consideration), 2 year warranty (better than some)... very low rated pre-amplifier stage... didn't even make Stereophile C rating in their overall list.

Pros: Benchmark, two analog inputs so can connect both SACD player and Tuner at the same time. True analog volume stage for the analog stages, highly rated digital stage for digital inputs, both control from motor-driven volume control. The brand new 32 bit ESS Sabre 9028 Pro chip, in quad design for PCM and quad design for DSD. Reference level rated pre-amplifier competing with many of the best on the market, receiving A+ rating by Stereophile. Industrial design where the file resolution, bit depth, word length are displayed with various LED (some may like some may not). Their ADC and DAC are used in many professional environments including a wide range of recording studios around the world (including Abbey Road). Five year warranties, Designed and built in the United States (Syracuse, New York, so second home town for me). Really nice metal remote included. 71 page all English manual going into great depths about the unit. Several settings that can be customized via jumpers on the main board (detailed in the manual). Ultra Lock 3, their custom designed anti-jitter, similar to Femto clock, they claim superior.

Cons: Benchmark has no DSD128 support (even though Benchmark believes this is not necessary I wish it had it; may be added with firmware update in the future as per their engineers). No MQA, again they have wrote white papers as to why they feel it is not an improvement and can actually hurt sound quality. No glitz on their display (personal preference, I have grown to like the industrial look). $200 more than the Mytek, although the DAC2 HGC is the same price with the better 9018 chip and the other advantages and disadvantages as being discussed). No balanced headphone capabilities, although Benchmark wrote a white paper as to why they feel balanced is not an improvement in headphones, which they feel actually hurts sound quality, and they will never offer it.

So comparing the pros and cons I felt that the Benchmark makes more sense for my purposes...
 
Then there is the new Bryston, which will D>A SACD's and Bluray via HDMI and has inputs up the wazoo. Don't know about the sound, although other Bryston DAC's and electronics are often praised. Definitely more expensive, unfortunately.
 
Wow... alot more money.... I just was checking on the Bryston site and unless there are new products they are not showing on their site to get the same functionality you would be talking 3 to 4 times the price of the Benchmark. A lot of amazing machines when you get into that level :)... I am sure it is some great equipment...
 
That is cool, and it looks like a nice unit.

However, it is a different type of product than the Benchmark (or the Mytek for that matter). It does not have any analog inputs what so ever, so it is more like using the Wyred 4 Sound DACs as a control unit for a wholly digital setup.

It is also not a true pre-amplifier in that it really is not design to be the full control center for a high end audio system. It also does not have a headphone amplifier. It uses the AKM DAC chip (compared to ESS for Mytek and the brand new ESS 9028 Pro for the Benchmark) and does not specify how it handles SACD through HDMI if your spinner supports SACD through HDMI. Most SACDs convert the DSD signal to PCM for HDMI. It does specify DSD256 can only be achieved through the USB port. Oh, and the remote control is an extra cost.
 
The DAC3 HGC finally arrived today!!! It was delayed slightly because they had an improved firmware that they wanted to put in place prior to shipping the units.

I fully expect some break-in to be needed, however..... first listen... WOW!!!!

The brand new ESS9028 PRO makes an amazing difference.... more definition in the instruments... much easier to pick out each instrument... more impact... kick drums, strings being hit (or strummed :)) have more feel... much more analog sounding.... just that warm inviting, without the pop and clicks :D....

First listen is very impressive... hopefully it will continue to improve with break-in...
 
The DAC3 seems to be settling in. Now that it has some time on it the sound is smoothing out very nicely.

Sound stage is by far the best I have heard. Separation and instrument placement is simply amazing. A lot more definition in individual instruments. Very strong bottom end, but what has surprised me even more is the clarity and impact in high frequencies. Cymbals are so much more present and easy to pick out then I had ever heard in my system prior.

The lines between analog and digital have become almost non-existent with Benchmark's implementation of the new ESS chip. For a machine that is virtually identical to it's predecessor the sound quality improvements are almost beyond belief.
 
I know, I go on about DSD, and on many of my downloads it is well deserved.

However the more I listen and try things I really have to say that the Benchmark DAC3 HGC is kind of amazing on PCM files. Now that the unit has broken in completely none of the previous DACs that I have had sounded so good on PCM.

I just ran an experiment that I did a year ago. I have a Roger Waters album in both 192KHz FLAC and DSD downloads. When I first tried this the DSD sounded quite a bit better; that was on a Teac DAC. I just reloaded up the PCM of this album and on the DAC3 it is much better than the DSD download. Smoother, much better separation and solid image. More definition on individual instruments.

Man this digital stuff drives me crazy
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... I wish there was a definitive answer, but obviously there is not
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...
 
Just got my new DAC 3 as well and it is breaking in. It was quite harsh when first turned on but it has been on for a day now which has made a huge difference. I will update the progress in a few days. I am new to this forum and I joined because the folks here seem pretty cool!😎
 
Praxis said:
Just got my new DAC 3 as well and it is breaking in. It was quite harsh when first turned on but it has been on for a day now which has made a huge difference. I will update the progress in a few days. I am new to this forum and I joined because the folks here seem pretty cool!
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Welcome to AudioShark Praxis! Glad you're enjoying your new DAC3, and it would be helpful to know what DAC you previously had and how they compare.
 
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