BAT preamp?

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Mechnutt

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I have a chance to buy a BAT VK-32 and a VK-51se. I want to replace my Pass X1 preamp. I have not heard either of these units. I want to add some midrange warmth without losing air, sound stage, resolution and transparency. I will pair it with my Pass X250 amp. I am also considering a CJ ET-3se preamp.

Any input would be much appreciated.

Larry
 
Either one you choose I think you are on right direction ( Adding a warmth ) . I would prefer the CJ over BAT though. YMMV
 
Calling Cyril...paging cmalak... Cyril just loves to go to BAT, honest too he is!
 
Hi guys. Heard my name :D

I actually am not familiar with BAT tube electronics (I am an ARC owner/afficionado). Having said that, my only concern with matching a tube preamp with your Pass Labs amp is the input impedance on the Pass Amps is on the lowish side (30/20Kohms single-ended/balanced) and tube preamps tend to have higher output impedances, so there may be (notice emphasis on may as I have no idea until you pair them up and listen to them) an impedance mismatch which will manifest itself in tonal deviations (either in anemic bass or rolled off highs or recessed midrange etc...depending on output and input impedance curves of the two pieces). The nominal output impedance on the VK-33 and VK-53SE (I guess the current versions of the preamps you are considering) are 300 and 200 ohms but that is typically measured at 1KHz and there could be variations in the output impedance across the frequency band but if not then there should be no problems (assuming a 10X minimum ratio between output and input impedance). The output impedance on the CJ ET3-SE is even lower at 100ohms so no problems there.

In terms of house sound from what I gather from reviews and personal demos of CJ gear, the CJ sound will tend to be a bit more burnished/warmer and BAT will have a slightly more modern and neutral sound, so my guess is the CJ will perhaps fit your purposes a bit more but my best advise is see if your dealer is willing to let you home demo them for yourself and then you will be able to confirm which best suits your needs and sonic preferences.

Good luck.
 
I will call Pass Labs about the impedance issue. I was aware of the potential problem.
 
i have owned a few bat preamps. vk3i, vk5i, and a vk 50se. this was several years ago as the vk50se was their newest model when i bought it. all were great in their own right the 3i being that for $900 used it is outstanding.and a real good phonostage in it. im looking for another one right now .the 50se which was a great preamp i didnt like the fact that you were stuck with those "super" tubes, but it was a real real nice preamp. BAT has the reputation of being dark, and it was but in a good way i always thought. i heard the vk32se and i believe it to be bettter than the 50se was. im guessing the 51se would also be better. all in all ive had several bat amps and pres and all were good products. one of my vk60 amps had some issues and had to go back to the factory a couple times. other than that they offer great sound for the money. i have no idea about cj gear, ive heard real good stuff (which was out of my pricerange)and stuff that did not appeal to me.
when i was shopping for pres and amps back in the early 2000's i heard several BATS,ARCS, and a couple CJ'S and i prefered the BAT sound to the others.just my oppinion though
 
Larry are these used units at your local dealer. Can you just try them out in your system? Or are these Agon potential deals with no potential demo before hand? Clearly if you can demo them and compare them in your system that's the way to go but that is blindingly obvious.

On the impedance match issue, my guess is it's not an issue but good to check anyway. Although, they won't know for sure unless they have actually tested those combos but at least they can look at the specs and give you a sense if they think there might be an impedance match issue or not.

Good luck.
 
These are used on Agon. I have a bid on a CJ ET-3se but the guy has not responded. I think that he is a dealer and probably sold it.


I don't think that the impedance issue will be a problem as there are a few people that use the BAT's with Pass amps. Although Stereophile measured the impedance of the BAT 51se much higher than the 200 or 300 ohms that BAT claims.

Any thoughts on a Mac C2200 preamp?

My issue is that there are no CJ or BAT dealers here in the Twin Cities. This is ARC, Atma Sphere, Bel Canto, and Van Alstine territory as they are all made here. Magnepan and Anticables are here as well. I live 20 min from Magnepan, 3 min from Van Alstine and Anticables and about 30 min from the others.
 
Larry...got it. Good luck! There are probably others here who are better versed in McIntosh than I am. I demoed a C2300 once and found it not too much to my liking but that could just as well be personal preferences and all. The C2300, to my ears, sounded a bit thick and slow and a bit too warm (almost as if tonal balance was shifted one octave down) but the bass I was hearing was more one-note than punchy and clear and articulated. Admittedly I heard the preamp in a system a few years ago when I was actually demoing a Rega P-3 tt with the entry-level cartridge that the dealer had fixed on it, and after 30 mins I just walked out. So that could have total been the cartridge and Rega table that were underwhelming to me, so I should not ascribe the sound solely to the C-2300. I believe the rest of the chain was MC452 amp and PSB Synchrony 1 speakers.

In any case, good luck hunting/scoring the right pre for you!
 
I had the 32SE, 51SE, and X2.5 preamps. I loved the 51SE on Wilsons. The Pass was uninvolving and amusical imo. Note, this is not the current versions which i have not heard.

i also had a 5i and 50se, which i found both to be veiled. In all fairness to the 5i, should have rolled tubes (although 8 is a lot to roll)

in general for your pass (which i owned the 250.5 too), look for fully balanced tube preamps as the impedance works better. Also note - the .5 edition of your amp is a giant leap in sq.
 
Guys- as Cyril conveyed, many of those single ended preamps like the Hovland won't work well with Pass. Look at the Stereophile measurements- output impedance is way too high and will result in lean bass.

Mechnutt- I have not heard the 2200, but did hear the 2300 was a significant improvement. There is plenty of comparisons on the other Mac forum.
 
Nelson Pass has stated that preamp output impedance is typically not an issue with any of his amps, but I had a tube pre with switchable output Z (the Juicy Music Peach II), and I did notice bass rolloff. So IMHO it is a real issue (sorry Nelson!).
That said, I think any of the Shindo preamps would be worth your time to listen to, altho IIRC the output impedance is may be a bit high for my comfort. I asked Kara Chafee about the output Z of her preamps, and they should not be a problem with the 20Kohm input Z of the Pass amps.
Lucky you to be checking out tube pres! They tend to be a bit noisier than the X1, but sometimes this is accompanied by a more lively sound that you may prefer over less noise.
 
I talked to Pass Labs and they said you can use preamps with output impedance's of up to 1K.
 
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