Azimuth adjustment

Myles B. Astor said:
I sympathize with your travails. Have you checked with your arm manufacturer if they know anyone? Sometimes if the arm wand is removable, they can even do it. I've even suggested that audio clubs buy say a Foz or Cable Cooker, charge a modest fee to pay for it and then lend it out. Perhaps some of these new audio websites (or hell even these internet cartridge retailers) could offer this service to their members. Sort of like the service the Cable Co. offers.

This person in NY does travel. Can't say what he'd charge but I know he set up Ivan's tables. For those who don't have the money for the Foz, there's the KAB unit that uses a mono record and costs around $80.

If one must, I do prefer sighting with the lightweight turkey roasting pin across the headshell. You can clearly see if the headshell is perpendicular but sadly that's really meaningless. No cartridge that I've set up by eye is remotely close to the final setting by instrument.

If it sounds like I'm on a Crusade (and don't forget Fremer's DVD), it's that many tt and cartridge owners aren't retrieving but a fraction of the information in the grooves because of improper cartridge setup. And the two cheapest ways of realizing a cartridge's inherent potential (I'm assuming everyone has an alignment jig and stylus pressure gauge that preferably goes two digits) that many neglect are azimuth and burning your tonearm wires in.

And I do disagree with Jeff that we got along just perfectly with our analog equipment before all this gear. Our cartridges didn't track as well, there were higher levels of primary and secondary distortion side bands, cartridges were peaky (as well as improvements in arm arm resonance control) and most of all, the cartridges tore up the records. I remember looking to buy a cartridge back in the '80s and as about setting overhang and the salesman looked at me like I was from Mars.
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Thanks for keeping it real.
 
Petro85 said:
Well that's the best idea I've heard. We should really get some people together and chip in on some of these items(fozzy, cable cooker, tube tester,demag, etc.) and just send it around to the next guy who needs it.
I was reading my arm info on the manufacturers website(Ortofon) and it says to use the mirror method for azimuth, which I did but I can see it would be easy to not be perfect. But with my arm I don't see a way to adjust it anyway. I have a removable headshell if when I put it in and hold it to the left as far as it goes before I screw it down it looks perfect in the mirror.
And I believe it is good enough, but I would love to know if it was perfect.
But $300 for a fozg. Is a little steep I need like several items that I would use everyday
in that pricerange before one of those. (New el34's I'm using one back up groove tube with my jj's. A better tonearm cable, a better form of surge protection. Which is why my tube blew in the first place, a power surge)
Ortofon does not really give you all the info needed to set up one of their arms perfectly. I'm still messing with arm height and have not found a baseline to work with. Should it be level? Should it have a little downward angle? Which is where
I'm at. Thank the good lord for Jeff to answer all my annoying questions. :)
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Maybe you should find someone to help set it up for you properly...

I agree with you on the price of the Foz. $300 isn't a huge amount of money but for something that is a one trick pony, and obviously there are others ways to determine Azimuth, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. :peace:
 
btw...I tried the index card method the other day and then did the mirror method today. This was very easy to do since I actually have a mirror mounted on my Amadeus. The mirror showed that I was off a hair so now it's pretty much spot on. Does it sound any different? Not that I can hear, so either my ears aren't up to the task or my system isn't as revealing as it could be. I'll do more listening tomorrow to determine whether I can hear a difference.
 
dlb2 said:
Maybe you should find someone to help set it up for you properly...

I agree with you on the price of the Foz. $300 isn't a huge amount of money but for something that is a one trick pony, and obviously there are others ways to determine Azimuth, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. :peace:
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Haha !!! There ain't anyone around here that even comes close to know anything about a turntable. Now if I had a problem with a sub in my car there are 250 places in town to take care of that. I'll be alright as I move the arm up and down the sound changes , right now I'm a little above level with a little down angle and I like it so far. I thought it was tightening my bass too much any lower and too muddy any higher. So I think I'm at a happy medium. I doubt there is a machine other than my ear to figure this out. Messing with my arm and cartridge is great fun all the different setting that can be done I'm on bearwald now but will try loefgren next and I didn't like Stevenson as much as the Baer .
 
Petro85 said:
Haha !!! There ain't anyone around here that even comes close to know anything about a turntable. Now if I had a problem with a sub in my car there are 250 places in town to take care of that. I'll be alright as I move the arm up and down the sound changes , right now I'm a little above level with a little down angle and I like it so far. I thought it was tightening my bass too much any lower and too muddy any higher. So I think I'm at a happy medium. I doubt there is a machine other than my ear to figure this out. Messing with my arm and cartridge is great fun all the different setting that can be done I'm on bearwald now but will try loefgren next and I didn't like Stevenson as much as the Baer .
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This is what I like to do as well. Try different things, use different methods, figure out what I like the best. All the while learning more and more about my gear and how to set things up better in general. Isn't this the way we all learn? I guess if I had the money to fly someone in to set up my table that would be one way to do it. But I'm more interested in finding out how things work through trial and error, using my own hands instead of my pocketbook.
 
dlb2 said:
This is what I like to do as well. Try different things, use different methods, figure out what I like the best. All the while learning more and more about my gear and how to set things up better in general. Isn't this the way we all learn? I guess if I had the money to fly someone in to set up my table that would be one way to do it. But I'm more interested in finding out how things work through trial and error, using my own hands instead of my pocketbook.
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So when are you going to start
Messing with the 38 settings on the back of that chinook!!! :)
 
Petro85 said:
Haha !!! There ain't anyone around here that even comes close to know anything about a turntable.
... I'll be alright as I move the arm up and down the sound changes , right now I'm a little above level with a little down angle and I like it so far. I thought it was tightening my bass too much any lower and too muddy any higher. So I think I'm at a happy medium. I doubt there is a machine other than my ear to figure this out. Messing with my arm and cartridge is great fun all the different setting that can be done I'm on bearwald now but will try loefgren next and I didn't like Stevenson as much as the Baer .
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What about Michael Fremer from Analog Planet?
 
NorthStar said:
What about Michael Fremer from Analog Planet?
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I didn't mean here like the internet or forum, I meant here like my neighborhood. :)
No one is around here until spring anyway and there's no home audio
shops for at least 2 hours drive!!
 
My customers love what I do with the Feickert software, among other tools. The Fozgometer may get you in the ballpark, but Adjust+ helps you hit the home run.
 
bpw said:
My customers love what I do with the Feickert software, among other tools. The Fozgometer may get you in the ballpark, but Adjust+ helps you hit the home run.
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see now thats something i like, a precise computer program. id rather use my mirror method which is free, but if i start buying lots of cartridges , something like that will come in handy.
 
You can do mostly the same thing as a Fozgo using a multimeter, though it needs to be a relatively sensitive one. You will still need a record that has a left channel and a right channel only tone on it.
 
Petro85 said:
see now thats something i like, a precise computer program. id rather use my mirror method which is free, but if i start buying lots of cartridges , something like that will come in handy.
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The mirror method works only if dead level (zero degrees azimuth, i.e. top of the cartridge parallel to the record) is the optimum setting, which in my experience is exceedingly rare, even for expensive cartridges costing into five figures.
 
BobM said:
You can do mostly the same thing as a Fozgo using a multimeter, though it needs to be a relatively sensitive one. You will still need a record that has a left channel and a right channel only tone on it.
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The Fozgometer measures channel signal levels and crosstalk. So does the multimeter method. The Feickert software does that plus it does Fast Fourier Transforms to measure phase response. The azimuth settings at which crosstalk levels are matched and at which phase error between channels is minimized (phase response the same for both channels) are most often different. It can be proven empirically that the ear is more sensitive to phase error than crosstalk levels. That said, doing something such as measuring crosstalk can be helpful, rather than setting it level and calling it a day.
 
BobM said:
You can do mostly the same thing as a Fozgo using a multimeter, though it needs to be a relatively sensitive one. You will still need a record that has a left channel and a right channel only tone on it.
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How do you adjust for phase?
 
I have been looking at the Azimuth adjustment for a while now.I want to take all the guess work out and allow for the diamond being on the tilt.I have a list of want items on my HIFI want list and hope to buy the BEST gadget for Azimuth adjustment in the next 6 months.Although I have yet to find anybody (even rocketman) who have used one apart from my Clearaudio dealer is the Clearaudio Azimuth Optimizer.
"If you need to know the price you cant afford one."
Stump
 
bpw said:
The azimuth settings at which crosstalk levels are matched and at which phase error between channels is minimized (phase response the same for both channels) are most often different.
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Case in point, the new Kuzma CAR-50 cartridge I installed here. Phase error is reduced to 4 degrees at the final azimuth setting.

CAR-50.jpg
 

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